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Artillery
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Being a musician myself, one of the strange things I noticed is that a song a like (being a doom song, or any other) is large determined by the key it uses.

Yesterday was a very pensive day for me, so I took time to recognise the keys some tracks are composed in. The results were interesting:
most of my favorite tracks (eg. Mucus Flow track, Hellcore map01 track, requiem map 31 track, The ultimate Torment & Torture: Armory of Pain) are ALL composed in c# minor, which is my favorite key. D minor is another key I hold dear and some tracks I like are in that key (Doom II map09, Eternal Doom map22, that renaissance sounding tune and map18 (what a fantastic melody)). Requiem map14 is another interesting track composed in the rare key of f minor, and it really sounds striking. They all enhance the atmosphere of the levels.

On the other hand, the tracks I found dull or annoying (eg. "Nobody told me about id", E3M3 song, Requiem map08, Doom II map08) are composed in a minor or g minor, the keys I usually find to be dull sounding. It also explains why I found songs like "stairway to heaven" and "child in time" dull, a minor is the culprit.

Last edited by Artillery on 04-14-08 at 10:00

Old Post 04-11-08 11:40 #
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LogicDeLuxe
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Artillery said:
Being a musician myself, one of the strange things I noticed is that a song a like (being a doom song, or any other) is large determined by the key it uses.
That I find strange. Well, there is a difference between minor and major, but the rest is just a matter of transposing, isn't it? So what happens if you just transpose songs to another key? It isn't hard to do with MIDI files, so I guess you already tried this.

Another thing related to this are PAL movies (I don't know if you are used to watch them), which usually have a 4% speedup resulting in about one semitone higher audio. Does this also have such a huge impact? I know, it is noticeable, but I never found it distracting when the audio is just pitched by 4%. I find it much more annoying when the sound is processed without pitching, which is done in some television shows. They never got this right without artifacts.

Old Post 04-11-08 14:31 #
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Artillery
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LogicDeLuxe said:
That I find strange. Well, there is a difference between minor and major, but the rest is just a matter of transposing, isn't it? So what happens if you just transpose songs to another key? It isn't hard to do with MIDI files, so I guess you already tried this.


Ummm, yes I did some transposing, and transposing into a different key does change the character of the audio track. Quite significantly. Before the equal tempering was introduced (19. century), the differences between keys were more clearly marked. Why is that? I wish I knew myself.


Another thing related to this are PAL movies (I don't know if you are used to watch them), which usually have a 4% speedup resulting in about one semitone higher audio. Does this also have such a huge impact? I know, it is noticeable, but I never found it distracting when the audio is just pitched by 4%. I find it much more annoying when the sound is processed without pitching, which is done in some television shows. They never got this right without artifacts.


Well, it does have an impact, as you said, it does change the pitch (although I never knew about this phenomenon before), since I didn't pay attention to this, it never distracted me (considering how much I used PAL movies, which was occasionaly). So it's important mostly in music.

I won't go into details, since that would be off-topic (we were supposed to talk about Doom anyway), but oddly enough, although many people's tastes in keys vary, I found that they correlate to some extent as well (I asked people about this). For instance, majority of the people I talked to agree that C major sounds dull (and a minor is the parallel of C major), and I've heard it repeated many times, OTOH I often found that the keys like d minor and c# minor were quite popular, and I too, dig them quite a lot.

There seems to be a general agreement as to the characters of many keys eg. C major- plain, ordinary sounding, b minor- sad, solemn (the ending of each DOOM II episode song) G major- very bright and happy, E-flat major- mellow and romantic, c minor-dark sinister, creepy or stormy (Beethoven's 5th, Doom II map03) etc. But noone seems to have a clear answer as to why that is.

Old Post 04-11-08 15:20 #
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geekmarine
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God, D_RUNNIN is bar-none the absolute worst music in the entire Doom series.

Old Post 04-11-08 17:24 #
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Never_Again
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With classical musical education background, I can confirm that key choice is a factor in the perception of a composition's mood. Whether this perception is universal or varies from person to person is a moot question, though. I don't recall being taught that C-dur (or A-moll) is inherently dull.

Back on topic: I cannot say that I hate any of DOOM tracks. They are all excellent, only D_INTER shouldn't have been used on E2M3: it doesn't bear prolonged replay, IMO.

DOOM2 music, OTOH, has tracks that don't go well with the game, like the already mentioned D_BETWEE (MAP04). There is only one that I hate, though: D_COUNTD (MAP03 and MAP21). This facetious ditty belongs in a Disney cartoon, not an FPS.

Old Post 04-11-08 18:37 #
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myk
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Because of the name and the mechanic simplicity, I've often wondered whether D_BETWEE (Between levels) was an early submission for the intermission, but that after seeing the warped screen that would go with the music, Bobby Prince went back to prepare something more adequate.

Old Post 04-11-08 18:57 #
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pizzabob18
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I don't actually hate any. However, the music of E2M7 is really cool and atmospheric, but it gets repetitive after a while, and the music of Doom 2 Map 8 has a repetitious pattern to it, music wise.

My favorite Doom tune is the music from E1M6 (on the hunt) when I was a little kid, its sharp dissonant chord at the beginning used to frighten me and give me the impression that someone was sneaking up behind me! It does help set the frantic fast paced run and shoot atmosphere that is classic doom/doom2.

Old Post 04-11-08 19:03 #
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printz
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Artillery said:
But noone seems to have a clear answer as to why that is.
Maybe because the music pitch is in analogy with the human tone?

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Old Post 04-11-08 19:56 #
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Artillery
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printz said:
Maybe because the music pitch is in analogy with the human tone?


I was thinking about that, I think there was a research that found a correlation between frequences of human voice in happy mood, and major key as opposed to sad, depressed speech and minor key, it makes some sense, yeah.

But that doens't answer as to why exactly do the different major and minor keys sound diff. to our ears, and nothing seems to explain it, aliquote tones, pitch relations (which are in modern tuning always the same, so not an issue), the individual instruments playing the melody, nothing, yet I've heard people say the same associations that come to mind with diff. keys eg. c# minor- waterfalls, see the beginning of "Mucus Flow" track, the melody there gives a very waterfall-like picture, regardless of the level you play it in, and with many c# minor melodies I've played for people, the answer was something along the line of "I'm imagining a lake, waterfall, a pool etc.". Transpose it to any other key, and the picture's gone.

Old Post 04-11-08 20:22 #
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DJShrimpy
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Doom 2, MAP03

Old Post 04-12-08 02:26 #
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Hellbent
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Never liked D_E3M2
Never cared for MAP04
MAP06 used to sound like the musical equivalent of turd until I got good speakers/sound card and then I recognized it was actually meant to sound like music!
I actually have a hard time finding music in Doom 2 that I like. I usually do IDMUS 28 or IDMUS 18 and I like MAP09. But the one track I really like from doom 2 is the intermission track which you can't play in game the way you can the somewhat annoying intermission track from DooM. It's a pity because there are so many tracks I like from Doom. I wish I could listen to doom1 music while playing doom 2.

Old Post 04-12-08 04:40 #
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printz
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printz said:
Maybe because the music pitch is in analogy with the human tone?
Notice I said pitch, i.e. whether it's always major but of different letter. Perhaps it's that normal TV speech is in the middle, enthusiastic shouting is high up, blabbering a bit lower (but still up), and upset muttering lower than normal speech. P'raps music is associated with such various states.

BUT, not everyone has music ears. Only a part of the pop would be affected by this.

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Old Post 04-12-08 08:21 #
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Never_Again
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Hellbent said:
MAP06 used to sound like the musical equivalent of turd until I got good speakers/sound card and then I recognized it was actually meant to sound like music!
I wonder how many of the posters in this thread would have to radically revise their opinions if they upgraded their hardware. With LogicDeLuxe's help, we can all now hear the music the way it was meant to sound; however his efforts are wasted on those of us pumping it through built-in laptop speakers.

Hellbent said:
I wish I could listen to doom1 music while playing doom 2.
Did you miss the Doom 1 Music In Doom 2 thread? Because now you can.

Old Post 04-12-08 08:30 #
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Jimmy91
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I hate quite a lot of the music from Doom, and I didn't realize it. It's mainly the long, quiet, repetitive and almost ambient tracks that I hate the most. E1M7, E2M4, MAP02, MAP06, MAP08 and MAP20 are probably the ones I hate most.

I really love any music from Ultimate Doom E3, but also E1M1, E1M6, E2M1, E3M8, MAP09 and MAP23. As you may see, my taste is probably the fast-paced, action-packed music mainly from Ultimate Doom.

Some of Bobby Prince's unfinished MIDIs are probably my faves, as well. :D

Old Post 04-12-08 10:57 #
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myk
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Hellbent said:
Never liked D_E3M2
While I don't dislike it, it's not one of my favorites either. The version in the DooM MuSIc (sic) CD sounds pretty cool, though, as Bobby added a chorus of sorts that makes it sound better.

Old Post 04-12-08 10:58 #
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DeumReaper
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always thought MAP03 music was goofy no matter what level it was in; plus MAP02 is kinda boring too

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Old Post 04-12-08 16:52 #
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TheAdmantArchvile
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The only song I hate is map 14 of plutonia (hunted). I don't really hate the music, it just pisses me off. If I wasn't in a maze, then it wouldn't.

DeumReaper said:
MAP02 is kinda boring too
I almost fell asleep playing that level(no joke). The music is sooo dull. I prefer E3M9. Good music that keeps me on my toes.

Old Post 04-12-08 22:25 #
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LordK
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I don't get all this MAP02 and MAP03 hate. Those are the best tracks in Doom2! They are relaxing and moody, and fit perfectly with small, early levels where the gameplay is on the easy side.

Old Post 04-12-08 22:42 #
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Patrick Pineda
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Well, the one Doom track I absolutely cannot stand is E1M1. Classic? yes. I've simply heard it way too many times.

On another note Heretic/Hexen Music tracks just annoy me. Except E1M9 of Heretic (the intermission for AV, Deus Vult II and the secret level for DotD)

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Old Post 04-12-08 22:48 #
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Binary Cake
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LordK said:
I don't get all this MAP02 and MAP03 hate. Those are the best tracks in Doom2! They are relaxing and moody, and fit perfectly with small, early levels where the gameplay is on the easy side.


I actually think that the music to Underhall goes really great with big, suspenseful levels that don't have many enemies (especially if those enemies are real dangerous).

Old Post 04-13-08 01:12 #
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Hellbent
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Never_Again said:
Did you miss the Doom 1 Music In Doom 2 thread? Because now you can.
Thanks!

Old Post 04-13-08 02:42 #
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Captain Red
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E1M9 music sounds like it belongs in a 8 bit plat former for kids, not my manly demon murdering simulator, but the cover in Classic doom mod for doom 3 was badass!

Old Post 04-13-08 02:43 #
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K!r4
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I think e1m5 is a music too short...
And in Evilution I hate musics of map02 and map08.

Anyway, I'm always in nomusic, should I to be burned in hell ? :P

Old Post 04-13-08 07:03 #
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Artillery
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K!r4 said:
Anyway, I'm always in nomusic, should I to be burned in hell ? :P

Not at all, I too usually switch music off, while ACTUALLY playing, while I turn music on, usually just to listen out of curiosity.

As for the mentioning of heretic music, I always liked the dark suspense and powerful sound of e1m1 and e1m9, but those two have been overused to death in custom doom levels, so if I'd include heretic music in my works I'd pick e1m2 and e3m3. Both, IMO, create awesome atmosphere in any past-themed (medieval, gothic, marble, caves) levels. Actually, come to think of it, I quite dig the whole heretic soundtrack, hehe.

Old Post 04-13-08 10:21 #
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printz
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I know what music track I hate! It's the Heretic ending text music. It's so basic it's like meant to be skipped, unlike its Doom ctrparts.

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Old Post 04-13-08 15:11 #
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the iron hitman
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D_BUNNY. Just doesn't feel evil enough for an ending. It's good, but slightly annoying.

Old Post 04-13-08 16:57 #
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dutch devil
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I found most of the doom2 music to be quite annoying to listen to, while I liked pretty much most if not all music from doom.D_BUNNY is an cool track it has some sick and evil sounding twist to it good for an map with an really weird look.E1M5 would be my favourite, its one of the most evil sounding music very fitting music for an hell map.

Old Post 04-13-08 17:42 #
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printz
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The map really matters for the music. The Doom 2 music, except D_COUNTD, D_ROMERO, D_OPENIN, works bad on medieval terrain, the same way Doom music is not so fitting for Plutonia (the one who said this one is myk in a veeery old "tnt vs plutonia" thread). The rest of the Doom 2 music works fine on quasi-ThyFlesh-like levels (I'm saying ThyFlesh as opposed to Doom 2 as the former seems to had become a popular inspiration for wads like Requiem, GothicTX, Darkening1, Crusades --- and I like it more than the TEKGRENful Doom 2).

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Old Post 04-13-08 19:16 #
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Nuxius
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D_RUNNIN, D_RUNNIN, D_RUNNIN and D_RUNNIN. Oh yeah, and D_RUNNIN. Seriously though, I can't stand that track. I'd rather listen to Doom on the 32X. (and that's saying a lot) Having it in the slot that is most used by custom maps is like a slap in the face.

All kidding aside, I personally find Doom music better for listening to, however, it only works for the smaller levels like Doom had. Most of it is too "in your face" to stand up to too many repeats. Whereas Doom 2's music, on the other hand, is more bland and laid back. So while I don't listen to it by itself, it works better in the longer maps Doom 2 had because it meshes into the background better. After I get into a level, I don't even really hear it anymore.

Old Post 04-14-08 09:39 #
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SamBeckett94
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I love most of the music in DOOM for the atmosphere it delivers, but the tracks I really dislike are:

E1M5
E1M6
E1M7
E1M8
E2M1
E3M2
E3M3
E3M8

MAP01
MAP03
MAP04

And so forth. I can't remember all the tracks, so I'm missing a lot off here, but, what the hell.

Old Post 04-14-08 21:06 #
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