Spider Mastermind
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Visplane Overflow: A metal tribute to Doom
 
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:50. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
GoatLord
Member


Posts: 543
Registered: 07-02


I actually posted a Doom tribute song on here months ago, but after bettering my skills as a musician, I became dissatisfied with the lack of diversity in the chords, as well as the glassy guitar tone. This song is a re-working of that original tune, with added harmonies, improved solos and guitar tone and better chord progressions. Like the original, it's titled "Visplane Overflow."

http://media.putfile.com/pug-fuglie...splane-overflow

Old Post 04-22-08 03:33 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Texas Libra
Member


Posts: 311
Registered: 09-05


After only 37 seconds of listening to that, I hit the "back" button to post a reply. Just thought I'd let you know.

Old Post 04-22-08 13:23 #
Texas Libra is offline Profile || Blog || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
K!r4
Member


Posts: 618
Registered: 05-07


It have a great potential heh !
I think with some improvements it could be better, maybe after bettering again your musician skill ? :)

The mains problems are the quality of the sound and a lack of harmony in the structure of the music (but it's just imo).
I like the e1m1 part.

Old Post 04-22-08 14:47 #
K!r4 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Member


Posts: 543
Registered: 07-02


If the harmonies sound a bit strange, it's because I use a lot of dissonant chords. Generally, rock/metal with heavy distortion primarily uses power chords because of their relative consonance. I purposely explored a number of different chords in this song to achieve unusual, often harsh harmonies. Those with an ear for music will (hopefully) hear all the layers.

As to the quality of the sound, the guitars, bass and drums are all synthesized, so you can expect it to sound a bit low-fi compared to analogue instrumentation.

Old Post 04-22-08 15:42 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
K!r4
Member


Posts: 618
Registered: 05-07


I wasn't meaning about the harmonies but about the progression of the music, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Old Post 04-22-08 16:55 #
K!r4 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DOOM ZEALOT


Posts: 1841
Registered: 06-06


Needs more melody.

__________________
"Bow down before the one you serve,
You're going to get what you deserve!"

Old Post 04-22-08 17:14 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments


Posts: 1680
Registered: 10-05


I won't complain about the dissonance. There's always enough of a tonal basis for the chords and chromatic melodies to work. But, this song has no large-scale structure at all, which makes it sound incoherent. Without a structure, it starts to sound just like a bunch of notes. If you want your music to be appreciated, here's what you need to do:

1. Divide the song into clear phrase and theme sections with lengths of 8 bars, or 16, 32, etc. Right now, you have one theme phasing into another at senseless unpredictable moments, and your thematic areas are all randomly different lengths. This is why it sounds like just a bunch of notes - without strong thematic exits and entrances at key moments, the listener is disoriented. Predictable structure is actually a plus for this genre of music, so don't fight it.

2. This song has no thematic unity. You use a handful of different themes, but then you throw each of them away and never revisit them. Take this attitude for your composition: if a theme is worth using, it's worth reusing (with development, of course). Use some existing thematic material to actually tie the song up when it closes, instead of just letting it end when it runs out of fuel. You can throw some sections out - having two or three contrasting riffs is appropriate.

If you need an idea for wrapping it up, you can phase back to the gunfire opening style. Whether you do that or not, you should cut that Doom intro shorter - 15 seconds is more than enough already.

Old Post 04-22-08 19:22 #
Creaphis is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
LogicDeLuxe
Member


Posts: 371
Registered: 08-03


It sure is interesting. And I agree, that the main problem is sound quality.

Is it a multi track recording? If yes, I could try to make a better mix, if you like. (This complete song for free. Just mention that I did the mixing and mastering)

If you want some demos of my mixing and mastering skills:
Indecision - "Soliloguy": some rock song.
timboZ: some death metal song.
Some more demos from different music styles are available here: http://abmischung.de/

Old Post 04-22-08 20:03 #
LogicDeLuxe is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
K!r4
Member


Posts: 618
Registered: 05-07


I duly recommend advices from Creaphis.

Old Post 04-22-08 20:46 #
K!r4 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Member


Posts: 543
Registered: 07-02



Creaphis said:
But, this song has no large-scale structure at all, which makes it sound incoherent. Without a structure, it starts to sound just like a bunch of notes.



I'm not sure where you got that idea; the majority of the song is in a Hungarian Minor key (I forget which one), while the E1M1 part is in a less eccentric minor key. The original song was too consonant for my taste; so what appears random are actually carefully reworked melodies and harmonies designed to be ingested after several listens.



1. Divide the song into clear phrase and theme sections with lengths of 8 bars, or 16, 32, etc. Right now, you have one theme phasing into another at senseless unpredictable moments, and your thematic areas are all randomly different lengths.



My metal influences are a bit atypical; bands like Portal, Autopsy, Cannibal Corpse, Death Breath, Human Remains, Gorguts, etc. These groups often have a progressive nature, where there may be a number of passages in a single song, with numerous changes in tempo, key and rhythmic pacing. The loose structure of extreme and avant garde metal is the basis for a lot of my metal-based music, so the lack of cohesion is intentional.



2. This song has no thematic unity. You use a handful of different themes, but then you throw each of them away and never revisit them. Take this attitude for your composition: if a theme is worth using, it's worth reusing (with development, of course).



Again, this relates to my influences. The song is intended to be progressive in nature, so themes are intentionally left behind. I wanted to establish different moods using different compositional methods and tempos. There was no need to revisit themes because the structure is more about changes in mood than cohesion. I appreciate the criticism though; I only have marginal music theory knowledge, so there's always room to improve.

Old Post 04-22-08 20:47 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
_bruce_
Junior Member


Posts: 124
Registered: 11-07


Doesn't work for me.

Old Post 04-22-08 20:57 #
_bruce_ is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Member


Posts: 543
Registered: 07-02



_bruce_ said:
Doesn't work for me.


I've sometimes had trouble using putfile pages on Firefox. If it isn't a browser issue, I can add a secondary link at an alternative upload site.

Old Post 04-22-08 21:03 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
LogicDeLuxe
Member


Posts: 371
Registered: 08-03



GoatLord said:
I've sometimes had trouble using putfile pages on Firefox.
Look at the source text. There is a complete url for the mp3 which you can just copy to your favorite download manager.

Old Post 04-22-08 21:22 #
LogicDeLuxe is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
K!r4
Member


Posts: 618
Registered: 05-07



GoatLord said:
The song is intended to be progressive in nature, so themes are intentionally left behind. I wanted to establish different moods using different compositional methods and tempos. There was no need to revisit themes because the structure is more about changes in mood than cohesion.

If it's really progressive, you should'nt take so brutals changes between the themes imo.

Old Post 04-22-08 22:30 #
K!r4 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Member


Posts: 543
Registered: 07-02


I personally didn't feel the changes were so severe, but again, I must reference back to my influences. Outside of extreme metal, even a lot of thrash and speed metal bands were known for abrupt changes within a song. It might work better with vocal accompaniment. I think if you're listening to it with the intent of hearing a consistent flow, you won't absorb the song properly. It's amorphous in nature and I don't tip-toe around that. At the same time, I can understand people who aren't into my influences being a bit confused by the change-ups.

Old Post 04-22-08 22:59 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
TimeOfDeath
Junior Member


Posts: 233
Registered: 06-06


I thought it was cool. Nice job!

I'm surprised by the negative comments and thought the advice for "how to get people to appreciate your music" was hilarious. That was the worst advice a musician could ever get. I like songs with generic/standard structures too, but don't criticize the guy for making it more complex. You're not going to improve your composing skills and listening skills if you don't want to improve and try new things. I don't think it sounded incoherent at all and I thought the sound quality was good.

Old Post 04-23-08 04:22 #
TimeOfDeath is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


Posts: 10612
Registered: 04-02


Yeah, I like it; it's an inspiring piece. The many changes made it good for listening to repeatedly (I left it playing with repeat mode a while), because they remove any sense of monotony.

Old Post 04-23-08 05:33 #
myk is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Member


Posts: 543
Registered: 07-02


Thanks for the mixed responses. I don't mind the criticism; I don't expect everyone to like it. I've thought about doing another doom tribute song, in a more Aubrey Hodges style.

Old Post 04-23-08 06:50 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
K!r4
Member


Posts: 618
Registered: 05-07


Heh like I've said I liked it, but I think also it's more a potential showing : I feel it can be better (it's why I try some advices, all can be tried to see how it progress).
But yeah, it's maybe also my influences which make me think this : I'm a Pink Floyd lover so progressive tunes are more expressive in my head =)

Old Post 04-23-08 07:22 #
K!r4 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments


Posts: 1680
Registered: 10-05



TimeOfDeath said:
I thought it was cool. Nice job!

I'm surprised by the negative comments and thought the advice for "how to get people to appreciate your music" was hilarious. That was the worst advice a musician could ever get. I like songs with generic/standard structures too, but don't criticize the guy for making it more complex. You're not going to improve your composing skills and listening skills if you don't want to improve and try new things. I don't think it sounded incoherent at all and I thought the sound quality was good.



Well, obviously there's no right way to compose, and it's up to the composer to choose which audience his music is aimed at. But, it's safe to say that metal with structure and thematic unity is appreciated by MORE people than the metal style of Goatlord's influences. Composers often face this difficult decision between writing in an avant-garde style and writing in a way that more people can appreciate. In my long post above, I didn't mean to say that "this is the way you should write music." I meant to say "this is the way you should write music IF you want a wider audience than what this will get."

Lyrics and a consistent vocal line already help to unify a piece, so I can imagine that this would be improved with one.

Also, as this is a Doom tribute piece, it does make somewhat more sense to use Robert Prince as your chief musical influence - but that's just my opinion.

Old Post 04-23-08 08:06 #
Creaphis is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Megaz
Mini-Member


Posts: 86
Registered: 04-08


Interesting. Not awesome, but interesting. Maybe a bit heavy for me, I guess.

Old Post 04-23-08 08:14 #
Megaz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


Posts: 10612
Registered: 04-02



Creaphis said:
But, it's safe to say that metal with structure and thematic unity is appreciated by MORE people than the metal style of Goatlord's influences.
That would matter more to somebody composing with a strictly commercial or utilitarian purpose, as opposed to a more expressive or artistic one. Maybe to earn one's bread, or as background music for a specific DOOM level, according to a level designer's requests.

Creating for others may produce more or less popular material, but also leads to relatively non-vital or superficial creations, because we must assume being others instead of ourselves... we may as well just tell those others to do it themselves.

Old Post 04-23-08 09:47 #
myk is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Member


Posts: 543
Registered: 07-02


I definitely made the song with the intent to satisfy myself. I am hoping, however, that others can enjoy it. It combines music that I feel would appear in Doom, but in my signature experimental style.

Old Post 04-23-08 13:51 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy Report to mod || IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:50. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
 
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Visplane Overflow: A metal tribute to Doom

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Forums Directory