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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


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I meant ingame, btw.

Old Post 07-02-09 20:10 #
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Woolie Wool
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Maes said:
A way to totally demystify hell would be to look at it as any other workplace/institution/authority:

The demons/devils are nothing but poor bastards in fireproof red vests that just try getting by working there.

They clock in every morning, wear some red fireproof vests, grab their gear (pitchforks, lashes, torture instruments, torches, propane burners, bellows etc.) and with a tired grunt worth of Al Bundy after a day at the shoe store, they shamble to their business.

One can (presumably) apply for the position of apprentice devil by becoming a satanist or by being picked for your "qualities" during your mortal life (so gangsters, politicians, etc. get to be devils in the afterlife as well).

Sure enough, there would be various ranks of devil/demon to which one can rise through service and depending on his aptitude. So a lowly apprentice will be given a beaten up fireproof vest and will be tasked with the more menial tasks like carrying all those heavy torture instrument, having to swim in the lava/shit/whatever, etc. while the higher ranking devils can enjoy torturing the damned, using more sophisticated machinery and implements, and have authority and responsibility over lower ranking devils. Very high ranking devils have their own offices and other positions of responsibility.

Those entering hell as The Damned just didn't qualify for Heaven, nor did they make the appropriate career choices early on ;-)

If you think about it, there are real-life scenarios where "hell-like" situations ensue (dictatorships, authoritarian states, military occupation, etc.) and where only those working for the system, be them lowly snitches, informers, members of paramilitary political organizations, armed forces, law enforcements etc. have it easy and have unsurmountable authority over others. If you know you're going to hell, you'd better be with the devils ;-)



I prefer to imagine that some but not all of Hell's monsters are sentient. Barons, Hell Knights, and any other members of their race, would be the most intelligent (at least as much as humans), being a sort of "master race" ruling over the rest of Hell's inhabitants. Arch-Viles would also be sapient but somehow bound to the will of the Hell nobles. Below them in intelligence would be the imps and similar creatures, who would be of rather low intelligence (perhaps similar to early hominids like Homo Habilis, with partial sentience and rudimentary language) and kept in line by brute force. They might hate their masters, but have neither the power nor the cunning to defy the Hell nobles.

Most of the other demons, such as pinkies and Cacodemons, are essentially animals, some trained and some wild.

Old Post 07-10-09 04:45 #
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Reaper978
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Arch-Viles would also be sapient but somehow bound to the will of the Hell nobles.

I would consider the Arch-Viles to be high-ranking members of the hell clergy. They also give me the impression of being much more intelligent and cunning than the Barons (dare to play a game of chess with an Arch-Vile?). They are extremely fast, they resurrect the dead, and they have mastered some advanced form of telekinetic hellfire attack. They're like the cardinals and bishops of hell.

Old Post 07-10-09 05:13 #
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Super Jamie
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True that.

Bobby Prince said:
The Archvile is an evil healer. Anyone getting in his way is blasted with fire and disintegrated. This includes other demons. But, after he has wrought his destruction, he then goes around and reanimates all of the demons. Because of this interesting dual personality, I decided to give him a very evil laugh as an active sound. For his death sound, I recorded a young girl saying 'why,' pitch shifted it down and mixed it with other sounds. The Archvile just doesn't understand why anyone would want to kill him as he sees himself as only doing good for his fellow demon.

Old Post 07-10-09 05:23 #
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Aaronjw
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In reference to the subject of male/female demons and reproduction, it should technically be the same as whatever angels are. Remember, by the Christian view of Hell etc demons are just fallen angels and afaik, angels don't reproduce. The bible says that 1/3 of the angels in Heaven went with Satan to oppose God. So, that also answers 2more questions; all the demons should be intelligent, and it also answers why hell is very churchy. Satan wanted to replace God, right? So, he would naturally feel the urge to mimmick Christian architecture.

Old Post 07-10-09 21:37 #
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Antroid
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That does indeed explain a few things, but i prefer to not look at doom's demons like that. Mindless evil fits them better, and the "churchy" places in Hell could very well be blasphemous mockery.

I wonder why the subject of the thread shifted from hell itself to demons. But oh well, it's not like it was a very resourceful topic.

Old Post 07-10-09 21:42 #
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Untamed64
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Why is hell mostly gothic? well.. have you ever imagined it to be filled with sunshine and rainbows?

Old Post 07-16-09 11:26 #
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Antroid
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Gothic isn't the only dark+gloomy style to fit hell, you know

Old Post 07-16-09 11:39 #
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Maes
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Untamed64 said:
Why is hell mostly gothic? well.. have you ever imagined it to be filled with sunshine and rainbows?


Maybe, who knows.

Old Post 07-16-09 13:06 #
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Antroid
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That's not hell.. It's... heavens! :0

Old Post 07-16-09 13:11 #
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Shadow Dweller
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From my understanding of my depiction of what a "Hell" is, Hell is basically a place for ones own torment and torture. So for one person a hell could be an endless lake of fire, another could be an infinite hallway with no doors, or a tiny 2x2 foot room with no way out. Hell could vary well be sunshine and rainbows, depending on the person.

My guess is that the Gothic depiction of hell just caught on better because it's no fun imagining yourself in and endless lake of fire or hallway, and so on. It also wouldn't make for good gameplay.

__________________
"Remember, remember the fifth of November. The gunpowder, treason, and plot. I know of no reason why the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot."

Old Post 07-16-09 19:15 #
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myk
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DuckReconMajor said:
Plus, on top of that, demons never really seemed like the defensive type to me. Yes they have cybernetic implants, but if you'll notice, they all seem to be more centered on blowing you to bits than anything else.
Yeah, that helps give the impression, along with the role of the baddies in the games, that they're a type of expendable cannon fodder. Hell spends all its efforts on granting its cheap minions destructive weaponry, not wasting resources on their defensive capabilities. The infighting and lack of any real coordination while fighting (there's no "help friends" feature in Doom, as later introduced in MBF) also helps this impression, giving the idea that none of the monsters care much for what happens to the others, if they don't actually enjoy seeing them croak.

Old Post 07-16-09 19:33 #
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Super Jamie
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Maes said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flpg675cCdw

What. The. Fuck.

Old Post 07-16-09 23:14 #
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Stilgar
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Super Jamie said:

What. The. Fuck.


Welcome to Doomworld. Enjoy your stay.

Old Post 07-17-09 00:52 #
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Maes
I like big butts!


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Stilgar said:



Super Jamie said:
What. The. Fuck.



Welcome to Doomworld. Enjoy your stay.



The experience would not be complete without this, for great justice.

Old Post 07-17-09 17:06 #
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Ragnor
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Heres a thought thats been stewing in my mind while the site seemed to go down (Just as I clicked reply too >_>)

As we all know, Hell corrupts and subverts everything it comes in contact with. Episode 2 of Doom pretty much embodies this concept. Anyone noticed the monsters though? They are 100% organic and natural until the end of Episode 2, where you find a demon enhanced with technology, likely "absorbed" from the UAC base. By the time you finish Episode 3, its likely the entire Deimos base has been taken over (that or the invasion in Episode 4 has already begun, thus more stuff), and you come upon the Spider Mastermind, a demon much more cybernetically augmented. These are the only two such enemies in Doom 1. Doom 2 is full scale invasion of Earth, and youve now got whole ARMIES of demons tooled up in brand new technology presumably absorbed from Earth, culminating in Baphomet, which is a giant head with all kinds of robotic shit shoved in it.

Despite the overall blandness of the design (slime waterfalls? A random lift that came from a tech base? I thought this was the very core of Hell, shouldnt it be all "epitome of hate and suffering"? Like flesh and blood and burning. Hell, the lift should be something like a giant spine erupting of a wound!) you can see a bit of this with that switch that raises the lift. The UAC foolishly gave Hell modern technology, basically :p

By Evilution, they even have SPACESHIPS MADE OF FLESH AND BONE AND CORRUPTION how cool is that?

So I'd say the Doom "Hell" changes depending on what its come in contact with, and then it just starts "appearing", like a few above me have thought. Maybe these gothic castles appear because of past contact with humans? It would certainly explain why theres a mine and a condo in Hell in Doom 2, but no castles anymore :p

EDIT: To add further on Baphomet, the ending text has it "thrashing its limbs", so he isnt just a "head in the wall". Maybe Hell is subverting him into something like a computer mainframe? Someone clearly needs to make a map where parts of the rest of him are visible.

Old Post 07-19-09 01:28 #
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Antroid
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I actually like to think that's because Doom2's hell part takes place somewhere underground, and not just in another dimension. That makes it a lot more atmospheric for me.

If you'll forgive a shameless plug (if not, ignore the following part of this post), in my wad i'm going to make this exactly so, it will be specifically pointed out that in the end our marine descends "into the bowels of the earth" that are being transformed into hell.

P.s. the "more visible parts of baphomet" idea is pretty cool! Somebody REALLY should make a hell map like that. Or just use the concept.
P.p.s. i actually liked map30 a lot for some reason. Except for the timing part of shooting the rocket, i never managed to do that.

Old Post 07-19-09 01:47 #
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Ragnor
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I just now went off to one of the various map30's to get him fresh in my mind again, and it looks a little like hes standing upright, while machinery has been built around him or something. Definietly drills and needles going in him though. With the general height of the maps hes on, imagine how much of him is underground. I'm guessing youd have to have pool of viscous liquid with an arm or something coming out of it, if you wanted more of him to show up

He looks likes hes coming more out of the wall in the ending background picture for Evilution which gave me this view.

Old Post 07-19-09 02:18 #
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Super Jamie
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Is it just me, or can you actually not shoot rockets into the brain in TNT MAP30? I tried in both PrBoom and ZDoom and they always hit the bottom ledge. There's no DBRAIN texture on the opening either.

Old Post 07-19-09 02:44 #
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Antroid
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I'm sure there is some trick, but it seems i don't know it. And i remember not being able to do that before too.

Old Post 07-19-09 02:52 #
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Ragnor
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I always had to IDCLIP to the area with the exit switch, but I hear things about a certain step you have to stand on and shoot from.

Maybe the maps a little buggy or something with certain ports? I dont know, I've only once beaten TNT properly and that was on Doom95 forever ago before I knew what a source port even was. Too long ago to remember how I beat Last Call then

Old Post 07-19-09 03:14 #
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myk
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spoiler - highlight to read:

You need to be on the step that will lead the rockets just below the brain opening. If you aim right at the opening they will hit something and fail.

Old Post 07-19-09 04:23 #
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Ragnor
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I always assumed you had to "open" the hole in its head before you could shoot into it, since it doesnt have a hole cut in it like Doom 2 and Plutonia. Well technically you DO open it, since the boss is "asleep" at the beginning of the fight, but you know, visually, like the membrane on its headhole getting "broken open"

Old Post 07-19-09 04:31 #
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