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myk
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Intel17 said:
What do you mean "broken to pieces"?
Map31 has bugs that can make progress difficult. TeamTNT released a PWAD fixing the bugs. If you haven't reached the level yet, you might want to add it the next time you launch TNT.

Old Post 12-30-09 19:30 #
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eargosedown
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Intel17 said:
What do you mean "broken to pieces"?


It doesn't really follow a style set, whereas plutonia did.

Old Post 12-30-09 22:48 #
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Talvi
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Also stuff like map8 (IIRC), where you have to fight dozens of hitscanners in a HUGE room, it's almost impossible, specially on vanilla where you can't freelook.

And the maps are too inconsistent. Some are FANTASTIC and some are beyond horrible.

Plutonia is a much better megawad, but yeah, there's a whole topic to discuss that.

Old Post 12-30-09 23:57 #
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Intel17
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Well, I'm at Map 11 and so far I really like it. I love tech type levels and most of them have been of this flavor, so perhaps that's why I like it so much?

Old Post 12-31-09 01:56 #
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Intel17
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Wooohooo! I stumbled across the first secret level in TNT: Evilution! :)

Old Post 12-31-09 13:47 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Gratz

Old Post 12-31-09 16:08 #
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BilboHicks
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Intel17 said:
Well, I'm at Map 11 and so far I really like it. I love tech type levels and most of them have been of this flavor, so perhaps that's why I like it so much?



Yeah, I'm a big TNT Evilution fan myself. This is making me want to play some co-op.

Old Post 01-01-10 04:52 #
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bimlanders
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I still can't beat Icon of Sin without cheating and going to the Romero head. It's not that I tried a billion times since 1993 and just can't do it. I just think that the level was stupid and not fun to begin with, and a bad idea. Doom 1 had a too easy last level, and Doom 2 has one that simply isn't fun.

Old Post 01-01-10 16:38 #
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Kagemaru_H
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Ah, that's where my Cyber-Maulotaur for my {{TOP SECRET WAD}} comes in.

Old Post 01-01-10 22:30 #
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Intel17
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Ack! Up to level 21. This game is getting ridiculously hard...

Old Post 01-03-10 05:37 #
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myk
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Intel17 said:
This game is getting ridiculously hard...
Unless you're already playing on skill 1, you shouldn't have a problem finding a more suitable skill level.

Old Post 01-03-10 08:21 #
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printz
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myk said:
Unless you're already playing on skill 1, you shouldn't have a problem finding a more suitable skill level.
Yes, but he'd have to start over in order to try a new skill level. 20 levels!

Old Post 01-03-10 09:05 #
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myk
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Uh, why? He could do that, if he wanted, but just as much warp to the current level using the new difficulty.

Old Post 01-03-10 20:14 #
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Maes
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Intel17 said:
Why did this game get totally panned in the reviews?


Heh, don't open old wounds...I had once written a quite heated (paper) letter to my country's best-selling PC gaming magazine when they dared giving Final Doom a low score (which in retrospect appears quite lenient: 65%). Incidentally, the same magazine had made a special Doom issue in 1994, in which they reviewed Doom and Doom II combined in something like 16 pages (huge by any standard) and gave it a whooping 99%, which only made me more bitter. How could they do this to DOOM? It was Mother-Fucking-DOOM, FFS!

OK, much of the letter was admittedly bitter know-it-all teen anger, but I made at least one correct point (translating the essence):


Let's see which of the countless other shovelware titles (that wish they were DOOM) that you also reviewed on that same issue with that sacrilegious Final Doom "review" will actually be spoken about, let alone played in 10 years from now


Well....seems good old Maes got that one right ;-)

Old Post 01-03-10 21:12 #
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Kyka
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I think good old Maes should post the entire letter. ;)


[edit] Also, I am a huge Evilution fan. Played through it just recently in fact.

Old Post 01-04-10 01:20 #
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Kagemaru_H
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I find myself playing Ultimate Doom more than any other Doom engine game, primarily to try running E2 on UV, and maybe E3. I'll use Doom II for modding/mapping for its content.

Old Post 01-04-10 05:10 #
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Maes
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Kyka said:
I think good old Maes should post the entire letter. ;)



Well, surprisingly I still have the original .TXT files I typed looong ago, to print with my dot matrix printer :-p

I now discovered that I had actually written TWO such letters: one was written before that Final Doom "review" and was milder in tone, probably written in response to a perceived Doom-bashing wave that had began to emerge from that magazine's pages (in practice, the didn't hide the hope that every new FPS on the market would be the "Doom killer". Yeah right).

I mostly (calmly) debated the technical merits of Doom over contemporary FPS such as Duke Nukem 3D, Quake etc.

However, the "angry" letter was based on that one (certain portions are copied verbatim), but was much more harsh vs the magazine, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D and random shovelware :-p The timestamp on both files is wrong, but the issue of the magazine where the "terrible deed" was committed was issue 78, so that's about February 1996, but taking into account that only one issue came out during July-August that's probably off by some 5-6 months, so the real date must be closer to September or October 1996.

In retrospect, I can see what a hothead know-it-all I was, I wasn't everybody's cup of tea, I didn't always argue rationally but I got some things dead-on nevertheless, like it or not.

The letter is in Greek, and about 10k of pure .TXT rage :-p

I can translate it all, with some patience, or just the important bits.

Last edited by Maes on 01-04-10 at 20:30

Old Post 01-04-10 20:21 #
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Kagemaru_H
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You just gotta know that as long as sites like this are maintained, and people still work with Doom and play Doom - alone, co-op, or deathmatch, it will never be "killed".

Old Post 01-05-10 00:40 #
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Ichor
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Intel17 said:
Ack! Up to level 21. This game is getting ridiculously hard...

When you get to map 30, make sure to pay special attentioLOUD TRAIN PASSES BY...lefrag yourself.

Old Post 01-05-10 00:59 #
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Intel17
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Made it to Map 28! I had to take a quick two day excursion into Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood since my best friend gave it to me for christmas, but I am back into Final DOOM.

Some of these TNT maps have taken me ~1hr. Figuring out these puzzles is tough. (a lot of the secrets are SO non-obvious...and I don't even find them all)

So far, if I were reviewing this game, even compared to the newer games I've played, I'd say it's a solid 10/10.

Edit: Map 29...getting close...

Last edited by Intel17 on 01-05-10 at 02:21

Old Post 01-05-10 02:02 #
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Intel17
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Done. Plutonia time, baby!

Question: should I try Plutonia on UV if I did all right with all the other DOOM games on UV, or should I really drop down to HMP?

Old Post 01-05-10 05:12 #
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myk
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I can't say for certain without seeing you play, but while it's the hardest, it's not too much harder than TNT. TNT varies more in difficulty and has larger levels while Plutonia is more consistently tough on levels that generally aren't too big. It has various parts with a lot of crossfire and monsters are used with more strategy than is usual in the other IWADs, so watching one's back is important.

Old Post 01-05-10 05:58 #
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Kyka
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Intel17 said:
Done. Plutonia time, baby!

Question: should I try Plutonia on UV if I did all right with all the other DOOM games on UV, or should I really drop down to HMP?



Go UV. It sounds like you have enough persistence to get through some of the tougher portions of Plutonia. And some parts will be pretty tough, but like myk says, it is not insanely tougher than TNT. SO if you got through TNT, you probably have the skills to get through Plutonia.

Go for it.

After plutonia, I would perhaps recommend a few of the classic vanilla megawads. MM, MM2, Requiem, AV perhaps. But just worry about Plutonia for now. Enjoy!

Old Post 01-05-10 07:38 #
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Intel17
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O_O

Just completed map 1 of Plutonia. Very intense and almost unreasonably difficult, but I like it :)

Old Post 01-05-10 15:14 #
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Maes
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myk said:
I can't say for certain without seeing you play, but while it's the hardest, it's not too much harder than TNT.


I'm sure that seeing a Manc and Archvile on the very first map as well as Go 2 It helped perpetuating this misconception. It sure is more focused on killing tough stuff than TNT, which was much more gimmicky (fancy maps, weird secret levels etc.)

Old Post 01-05-10 15:18 #
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Airman266
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UV it

Old Post 01-05-10 16:12 #
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Kyka
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Maes said:


Well, surprisingly I still have the original .TXT files I typed looong ago, to print with my dot matrix printer :-p

I now discovered that I had actually written TWO such letters: one was written before that Final Doom "review" and was milder in tone, probably written in response to a perceived Doom-bashing wave that had began to emerge from that magazine's pages (in practice, the didn't hide the hope that every new FPS on the market would be the "Doom killer". Yeah right).

I mostly (calmly) debated the technical merits of Doom over contemporary FPS such as Duke Nukem 3D, Quake etc.

However, the "angry" letter was based on that one (certain portions are copied verbatim), but was much more harsh vs the magazine, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D and random shovelware :-p The timestamp on both files is wrong, but the issue of the magazine where the "terrible deed" was committed was issue 78, so that's about February 1996, but taking into account that only one issue came out during July-August that's probably off by some 5-6 months, so the real date must be closer to September or October 1996.

In retrospect, I can see what a hothead know-it-all I was, I wasn't everybody's cup of tea, I didn't always argue rationally but I got some things dead-on nevertheless, like it or not.

The letter is in Greek, and about 10k of pure .TXT rage :-p

I can translate it all, with some patience, or just the important bits.



That's cool dude, don't go to heaps of trouble over it. But yeah, perhaps just a couple of the parts you think are the most relevant, from either of the letters would be interesting.

Thanks dude. I remember well when final doom came out. TWO new megawads!! And i remember it being put down by the critics too. So it would be good to see a "defender of the faith" sticking it to those critics.

And even if you were a "hothead know-it-all", lets face it; so are most of those self professed gaming 'experts' anyway. o_0

Old Post 01-05-10 18:12 #
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Ninjalah
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Ichor said:

When you get to map 30, make sure to pay special attentio<font color="ff0000">LOUD TRAIN PASSES BY...</font>lefrag yourself.


Telefrag yourself? Where!? So much suspense!

Old Post 01-05-10 18:33 #
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Maes
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Kyka said:
Thanks dude. I remember well when final doom came out. TWO new megawads!! And i remember it being put down by the critics too. So it would be good to see a "defender of the faith" sticking it to those critics.


Well, here it is. Although it seems written by the Doomguy from the Doom Comic incarnated ;-)

Last edited by Maes on 01-08-10 at 22:30

Old Post 01-06-10 10:09 #
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U.O.D.
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I recently played through Doom 2 and Final Doom on UV. I thought playing through normally would be too easy, so I decided to do a pistol start only playthrough for both. That is, play a level from pistol start to finish then on the next level IDCLEV to the current level to reset my inventory.

It was blast. If you haven't tried this before I recommend you do.

Old Post 01-08-10 15:48 #
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