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Phml
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I've got to agree with kristus when he says "there's nothing suggesting that more people leave than there are new people arriving."

The only hard numbers I could think of was checking the number of wads uploaded on the /idgames archive during the last 3 years. It's definitely not a perfect metric, but it reflects activity to an extent.

2007 to 2008 : 447 wads
2008 to 2009 : 362 wads
2009 to 2010 : 421 wads

It seems relatively believable to me that right now the Doom community could be at a point where it is neither growing or shrinking by any perceptible amount.
Old Post 01-25-10 23:33 #
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gggmork
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until the singularity
Old Post 01-25-10 23:51 #
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Philnemba
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Maes said:
But WoW is WoW. It's hard playing any other MMORPG/whatever without crossing the "nerdy" line.


Speaking of MMORPGs, Some people still play Everquest. Hell they still make expansion packs for that game O_o

Anyway As long as people play Doom, it will never be forgotten. It'll be the same way with any other game, even Everquest(and NO I don't play that game). Truthfully, I find myself playing Doom til I died as an old man ;)
Old Post 01-26-10 01:56 #
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jute
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Phml said:
I've got to agree with kristus when he says "there's nothing suggesting that more people leave than there are new people arriving."

The only hard numbers I could think of was checking the number of wads uploaded on the /idgames archive during the last 3 years. It's definitely not a perfect metric, but it reflects activity to an extent.

2007 to 2008 : 447 wads
2008 to 2009 : 362 wads
2009 to 2010 : 421 wads

It seems relatively believable to me that right now the Doom community could be at a point where it is neither growing or shrinking by any perceptible amount.


How did you find this data? It would be really interesting to do some analysis of idgames contributions over the years.
Old Post 01-26-10 02:06 #
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Cjwright79
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hardcore_gamer said:
I was just wandering.....

We all love Doom, we really do. But we also know that at some point in the future this game is going to die.......


I think you are projecting your personal fears onto the matter of DOOM. Suffice to day that the community is robust now, 16 years after the supposed heyday of the title. If interest hasn't waned yet, why would it ever?
Old Post 01-26-10 02:52 #
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Cjwright79
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Patrick said:
Doom is sort of a "baby's first moddable game" for a lot of people. I don't think it's going anywhere.


It's also the most easily-moddable game. I tried making a TF2 map once but gave up when the program took five minutes just to get going.
Old Post 01-26-10 02:55 #
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Deenis17
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I'm 17 and I started playing "doom" about 3 years ago, and unlike ANY other game, somehow it just never gets boring. Even when i got into games like Quake or Starcraft that can be modded and ect., I always end up returning to doom again. I can't explain why I do; Doom is such a seemingly simple game. I always expected I'd get bored of it eventualy, but by now that doesn't seem possible. There's obviously somthing unique about doom that gives it a quality of endless entertainment.

On the other hand, my little brotha (He's 9 and he's a little video game FREAK) thinks doom is dumb! I guess he's used to games with amazing 3d graphics and complex gameplay... how will the doom comunity live on if the rate of next generation doomers starts to drop?
Old Post 01-26-10 03:09 #
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Cjwright79
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Philnemba said:


Speaking of MMORPGs, Some people still play Everquest.


I'm eagerly awaiting the EQClassic project myself. I sort of suspect that most games with a soul were created in the 90s.
Old Post 01-26-10 03:13 #
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HackNeyed
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DOOM will continue to be played for a long time for all the reasons stated.

1) id is keeping the brand name alive with new titles and official ports to the iPhone and xBox mean the mainstream have their shot to discover the community.

2) Thanks to the unofficial ports and user content keeping the game both playable and fresh-ish really leaves the community to itself to live or die. As was said, even though the quantity may have decreased I too feel that the quality has increased.

jute said:

How did you find this data? It would be really interesting to do some analysis of idgames contributions over the years.


I won't speak for Phml but I have a copy of the mirror and did a search by year of .zip files in a folder that only had the doom and doom2 level folders inside of it. So sound, music, skins, themes, heretic and hexen levels, etc weren't counted for my numbers which, according to upload dates, are... *drum roll*

1993 = 0
1994 = 772
1995 = 1,726
1996 = 1,447
1997 = 736
1998 = 479
1999 = 343
2000 = 308
2001 = 288
2002 = 241
2003 = 427
2004 = 514
2005 = 821
2006 = 478
2007 = 349
2008 = 276
2009 = 308
2010 = 19 and counting
Old Post 01-26-10 03:18 #
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wolf739
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As long as i have my USB key with Ultimate Doom in a zdoom .zip archive IT WILL NEVER DIE!!!


EDIT: And Doom builder and Doom 2 are in there somewhere
Old Post 01-26-10 03:27 #
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esselfortium
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HackNeyed said:
I won't speak for Phml but I have a copy of the mirror and did a search by year of .zip files in a folder that only had the doom and doom2 level folders inside of it. So sound, music, skins, themes, heretic and hexen levels, etc weren't counted for my numbers which, according to upload dates, are... *drum roll*

1993 = 0
1994 = 772
1995 = 1,726
1996 = 1,447
1997 = 736
1998 = 479
1999 = 343
2000 = 308
2001 = 288
2002 = 241
2003 = 427
2004 = 514
2005 = 821
2006 = 478
2007 = 349
2008 = 276
2009 = 308
2010 = 19 and counting

Woah, what happened in 2005? @_@

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Old Post 01-26-10 03:28 #
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HackNeyed
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esselfortium said:

Woah, what happened in 2005? @_@


You mean the year that followed the August release of Doom 3 and the subsequent feelings of either yay, meh or utter disappointment felt by gamers world wide? Oh THAT year. hehe

I feel more toward the meh crowd myself. I actually left Doom2 back in 95/96-ish having never played or known about pwads. I came back around 2001 just for Doom/Doom2 and then shortly found the pwads and OMG! lol Yeah, I don't see myself ever quiting. Well, more or less. Ever.
Old Post 01-26-10 03:54 #
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lupinx-Kassman
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Edit: Hackneyed'd
Old Post 01-26-10 03:57 #
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eargosedown
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Dark Force still has a fan base to this day... do you seriously think Doom could be anywhere near on it's way out?

Not to mention, being a "hardcore FPS gamer" that I am, I still enjoy Doom just as much as any modern FPS ever. I will continue to play Doom until the day I cannot play it because of software limitations (Doubtful that'll come to pass) or I die. And, because of great programs like Oblige, even if I managed to play every single map, I can always play new ones.
Old Post 01-26-10 04:41 #
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DuckReconMajor
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If people have stopped playing it, then you're not playing it, therefore, you probably won't care.

I think the reason this topic tends to bother people is that associating oneself to something that is liked and popular is a point of pride for people. The thought that it might not be that way later on is frightening.

As for Doom itself, I disagree with Maes in that I think Doom will go down as one of the classic works of this media. I mean a lot of you guys don't seem to see it, but Doom gets a lot of respect form people all over. Back when I used to play XBLA Doom online I was in a match with someone who bought the game because everyone told him Doom was "the shooter you have to play". And more people get told this every day. Something like that doesn't go away overnight.
Old Post 01-26-10 05:20 #
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myk
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DuckReconMajor said:
I think the reason this topic tends to bother people is that associating oneself to something that is liked and popular is a point of pride for people. The thought that it might not be that way later on is frightening.
I's say that people who bring this up often do just because they are, at the moment, not enjoying the game that much and kind of project their lack of interest into the community, assuming others might be feeling similarly.

That is, they feel the game is doomed to fade out because it seems to be fading, to them.
Old Post 01-26-10 05:36 #
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rf`
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ArmouredBlood said:
That's like asking when will entertainment die.

Hollywood died in the late 90's.
Old Post 01-26-10 06:28 #
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Phil1984
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People will be playing Doom as long as computers are around for. The game has ingrained itself far too deep into gaming culture, has far too much to offer someone interested in games, and has far too much user generated content for it to ever get to the point where no one will want to play it.

Will the Doom Community as we know it still exist in the long term? Who knows, but I don't see it disappearing anytime soon!
Old Post 01-26-10 07:41 #
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neg!ke
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Vermil said:
Mapping has probably become much more complex these days, but many other aspects of modding are much easier in newer games than older ones.

What I meant was mostly focusing on mapping, so yes.
But I'd claim that even in the field of modding the difficulties only have shifted in a way, if one could say so. What seems certain is that modern games apparently implicate a need for much more ambitious projects instead of simple stuff. Or something like that.
Old Post 01-26-10 10:16 #
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Phml
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How did you find this data?


I just looked at URL numbers and release dates. HackNeyed's method is obviously much better.

Interesting to see that, while there's ups and downs, the number of wads uploaded in 2009 isn't far below 1999 ; and just looking at Doom/Doom 2 wads, there's still an increase from 2008 to 2009, breaking a steady decline since 2005. On such low numbers, it could be people uploading old wads just as well as anything else, but I think the DB2 release probably helped.
Old Post 01-26-10 11:43 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Phml said:
On such low numbers, it could be people uploading old wads just as well as anything else, but I think the DB2 release probably helped.


And I believe there was a ton of 1994 wads uploaded around 2005, as I remember reviewing a bunch of them at some point before I quit. (probably explains the high numbers that year)
Old Post 01-26-10 12:06 #
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DuckReconMajor
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myk said:
I's say that people who bring this up often do just because they are, at the moment, not enjoying the game that much and kind of project their lack of interest into the community, assuming others might be feeling similarly.

That is, they feel the game is doomed to fade out because it seems to be fading, to them.
That's true as well. I guess there are a bunch of different reasons. I remember I used to worry because "what if I release an awesome project in a few years and no one is here to play it?"
Old Post 01-26-10 12:11 #
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Cjwright79
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esselfortium said:

Woah, what happened in 2005? @_@



Wasn't Dubya re-elected late 2004? Might have reignited a few people's passion for murder and mayhem.
Old Post 01-26-10 14:03 #
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Cjwright79
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rf` said:

Hollywood died in the late 90's.


Largely true, but didn't you like There Will Be Blood? No Country? Gladiator? The Book of Eli?
Old Post 01-26-10 14:04 #
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Phobus
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esselfortium said:

Woah, what happened in 2005? @_@


I joined the community :P (in the zdoom forums admittadly)

In all honesty though, I imagine there were a lot of long term projects that got finished off, a lot of '94 uploads and I do also imagine things like the DAC at the time probably made for small increases in numbers.
Old Post 01-26-10 14:36 #
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myk
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rf` said:
Hollywood died in the late 90's.
More like it pollinated all over the world. Since then, it has become more of a globalized industry, with many regions producing their Hollywood-style cinema.
Old Post 01-27-10 09:37 #
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_bruce_
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Doom has an immortal appeal... the better the gfx of today get the more Doom will shine for its cool interpretation of reality... a cult classic so to speak...
Old Post 01-27-10 14:43 #
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Cjwright79
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_bruce_ said:
Doom has an immortal appeal... the better the gfx of today get the more Doom will shine for its cool interpretation of reality... a cult classic so to speak...


Exactly. How many games today have monsters based on actual models?
Old Post 01-27-10 14:57 #
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Snakes
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If Doom hasn't bored us for the past 15 years, I somehow doubt it'll bore us for the next 15. Plus I know of quite a few people who got into Doom through Xbox, oddly enough. Then you have people like me, for example, who didn't even know there was an abundance of PWads until about 2 years ago. I don't think Doom is going anywhere for quite some time.

rf` said:

Hollywood died in the late 90's.


Wait, what? This is one of the least true statements I've ever read in my life.
Old Post 01-27-10 18:34 #
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Cjwright79
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Snakes said:
Wait, what? This is one of the least true statements I've ever read in my life.


I think he means that something about Hollywood changed substantially over the 1996-2003 period. At least that is my perception. It's mostly just crummy, soulless CG now. Not that film in the 90s was generally very good -- but a few pictures were. GoodFellas. Pulp Fiction. Seven. American Beauty. Fight Club.
Old Post 01-27-10 18:43 #
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