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baronofheck82
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Posts: 122
Registered: 02-10


I like the Archvile. I don't like how it's been abused lo these many years in countless wads and megawads. "Open up the blue skull-key door, OH EM GEE WOW ANOTHER FOUR OR FIVE ARCHVILES WOW THAT'S CREATIVE!!" Like other people have already said, if it's used sparingly and/or creatively, the Archvile's not a problem, to me at least.

Old Post 04-07-10 22:51 #
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DeathevokatioN
Forum Staple


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Played a wad the other day where you get ambushed by 8 archvilles with NO ammo. Instant quit.

Old Post 04-07-10 23:06 #
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myk
volveré y seré millones


Posts: 14420
Registered: 04-02


Arch-viles look and sound wicked, are something that enhances strategic play and greatly helps make DOOM II the awesome game it is. 5/5

I don't think they have to be used sparingly to suit my skill level. I know well that some maps kick my ass and can frustrate me, but that doesn't make me think that better players should be left without something intense to play just because I (relatively) suck at DOOM. If I get consistently pwned by arch-viles or whatever, I lower the difficulty setting, finish the level, and then go watch Anima Zero or another such hero demolish them, instead of whining on a Doomworld thread like a noob.


Creaphis said:
I like 'em. The archvile is notable for having an attack pattern unlike the attack pattern of any other monster in the game, which means the player has to use unique strategies against it. This is a real strength of Doom's monster design overall - most monsters have to be fought in very different ways, which keeps gameplay interesting. What you see too often in other games is enemies that are essentially this other monster, only more so, as in, they have the same behaviour as another monster but have a stronger attack or require more dakka to kill. Encounters with such monsters may be more challenging, but without being more interesting, which is bad.
Well, isn't a hell knight just "a bigger imp"? The DOOM monsters are simple but tend to have a key variation or two that make them different enough, but most importantly, they are used in conjunction as pieces to be combined. The arch-vile is probably the most different, because it has three "special abilities": it's never a target, its attack is unusual and it resurrects monsters. It's really a kind of boss monster, but instead of being huge, like the cyb and the spider, it has various special qualities.

In a general sense, the monsters also tend to counter the player's attacks with similar effects, and the arch-vile seems like a good counterpart to the BFG, with a non-projectile damage effect (think of the BFG tracers) and the ability to bring monsters back to life (to counter the destructiveness of the weapon). The designers must have thought, "we need something meaner than the arachnotron's plasma burst, but it needs to be focused on the player." The revenant can be seen as a counterpart of the rocket launcher, in this sense. Since rockets are too powerful for something less than a boss, they removed the area damage (which creates a lot of infighting and damage to the monsters) and made its projectile follow the player.

Old Post 04-11-10 09:15 #
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deathbringer
Post invalidated by first word being "uhhh"


Posts: 3497
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uhhhhhh

I was once planning an epic series of wads that was going to end with one called "The Vile Planet" in which you learn actually they created 'hell' (which was going to be revealed to be an earth-sized planet inside Jupiter's great red spot) and were behind the whole thing.

Of course the "vile planet" was going to have different classes and not just be infested with the yellowey kind.

Old Post 04-11-10 10:52 #
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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments


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cybdmn said:

Thats what happened, as i reached "Arch-Violence" in Plutonia 2. From the beginning it felt like an "official" Plutonia sequel, but this map destroyed the whole megawad for me.

That is a good example of mis/overusing the Arch-Vile. While i like AVs for they can add much to the gameplay and fun of a map, it is essential to use them wise, because it is a dance on a wire.
It can make a map outstanding great or utter shit.



Oh yeah, that map. I liked it. The final fight took me a lot of tries, sure, but it was an enjoyable challenge for me. Eventually I found a pattern of movement that made the fight survivable. The line between "creative, challenging use of archviles" and "cheap, impossible use of archviles" definitely moves depending on the person. Because of this, when I'm faced with a popular level that I simply can't beat, I try to step down gracefully, with a thought like, "This is a creative, well-designed level... for someone other than myself."


myk said:
Well, isn't a hell knight just "a bigger imp"?


Even more so, a baron of hell is just a bigger hell knight, which is why I used the qualifier "most" in my earlier post. (Even still, though, if you have very limited space in a hallway to kill your opponent, barons and knights may have to be handled differently.)


myk said:
The DOOM monsters are simple but tend to have a key variation or two that make them different enough, but most importantly, they are used in conjunction as pieces to be combined.


Good point. I suppose that a factor that exacerbates the "sameyness" of opponents in modern shooters is that, in general, they're too dangerous individually to be used together in any clever combination. Even if these opponents do have individual differences, they'll hardly be noticed if the player's best tactic is always to get behind cover and take them out two or three at a time. The broader tactical possibilities of Doom level design allow even the smallest differences in monster strength and behaviour to show themselves.

Old Post 04-11-10 17:46 #
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Clonehunter
Senior Member


Posts: 1802
Registered: 03-10



deathbringer said:
I was once planning an epic series of wads that was going to end with one called "The Vile Planet" in which you learn actually they created 'hell' (which was going to be revealed to be an earth-sized planet inside Jupiter's great red spot) and were behind the whole thing.

Of course the "vile planet" was going to have different classes and not just be infested with the yellowey kind.



Did you ever go through with it? Thats an interesting plotline actually.

Old Post 04-14-10 01:39 #
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BilboHicks
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Posts: 482
Registered: 11-07


been play-testing thru a bunch of doom2 levels, and I agree with many, that the maps like MAP13 are kind-of... boxy, sparse & bland.

Its the imaginative enemies like the arch-vile that really give clout to Doom2. Seeing an archvile res for the first time was freaky but very cool. The attack too is awesome, in terms of running like a sissy for cover, trying to avoid other enemy attacks ( that are probably res-ed monsters). Throw in the sounds for it, and it is like some freaky demonic shaman from hell.

Old Post 04-14-10 04:02 #
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