Doomworld Forums - Seeing monsters' back at the start = unrealistic?

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 6842
Registered: 06-06

Vile said:
ID must have thought the same thing since monsters in Quake were able to patrol their starting areas, although some of them can still get back-attacked (start of e1m2).

For some reason, only the Doom-engine enemies are impaired of their patrolling ability. ZDoom corrected it.

04-10-10 19:01 #

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ptoing
Junior Member

Posts: 142
Registered: 06-02

AFAIK in Quake monsters only patrol if you make paths for them when you make a level, otherwise they just stand around and idle, just like in Doom.

04-10-10 20:47 #

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Vermil
Senior Member

Posts: 1223
Registered: 03-04

ptoing said:
AFAIK in Quake monsters only patrol if you make paths for them when you make a level, otherwise they just stand around and idle, just like in Doom.

And?

In Wolf3D you have to use special patrolling versions of the actors. The standard versions of actors just stand there.

Another thing that doesn't appear in any Doom engine game is standing graphics. In Doom and Heretic, they "walk on the spot" while HeXen and Strife have them standing in their first walking frame.

Last edited by Vermil on 04-10-10 at 20:59

04-10-10 20:53 #

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vdgg
Moderator

Posts: 872
Registered: 08-07

Vermil said:
Wolf3D

Glad you reminded that :)

However, dogs were only moving/patrolling (no stationary dogs), while bosses were only stationary, but with no "back" at all! (facing every possible direction).

Also, thanks printz for reminding me of The Inmost Dens III.
All in all, there surely must be lot of such maps which I like regardless of this "flaw". Still, my preference is to have either a quiet starting area, or monsters facing the player (not necessarily Gusta-style with chaingunners and such, but this subtype of maps is very fun, too!)

The only possibility other than the three (1.no monsters, 2.monsters facing the player, 3.monsters facing the "wrong" direction) that I can think of is something like MAP18 from Doom II - forcing the player to shoot. This type of maps can be regarded as 1.no monsters, but is somehow different.

04-10-10 21:06 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

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I can't tell why, but some people get offended by maps starting with ambushes of monsters facing them. Maybe that's why some mappers do the stealth practice.

04-11-10 10:49 #

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Coldfusio
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Posts: 435
Registered: 09-02

vdgg said:

Glad you reminded that :)

However, dogs were only moving/patrolling (no stationary dogs), while bosses were only stationary, but with no "back" at all! (facing every possible direction).

Also, thanks printz for reminding me of The Inmost Dens III.
All in all, there surely must be lot of such maps which I like regardless of this "flaw". Still, my preference is to have either a quiet starting area, or monsters facing the player (not necessarily Gusta-style with chaingunners and such, but this subtype of maps is very fun, too!)

The only possibility other than the three (1.no monsters, 2.monsters facing the player, 3.monsters facing the "wrong" direction) that I can think of is something like MAP18 from Doom II - forcing the player to shoot. This type of maps can be regarded as 1.no monsters, but is somehow different.

There's also the no-monsters in the starting room but that will change soon as you open the door theme as demonstrated in the first map of this recent and unfinished map or in squares :

TimeOfDeath said:
Download: EM1a.zip (-complevel 9)

http://timeofdeath.wrvids.com/doom/em19.JPG

04-12-10 01:10 #

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Coopersville
Get Psyched!

Posts: 2765
Registered: 10-01

It's explained in the Doom books.

04-12-10 17:10 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7040
Registered: 07-07

printz said:
I can't tell why, but some people get offended by maps starting with ambushes of monsters facing them. Maybe that's why some mappers do the stealth practice.

Putting stealth monsters at the start so that the player can't see that the monsters are turning their back? Ingenious.

04-12-10 18:20 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

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Gez said:

Putting stealth monsters at the start so that the player can't see that the monsters are turning their back? Ingenious.

Errrr, sorry for not being specific. I didn't mean that. Anyway, are stealth monsters really invisible when idle, or not?

I meant the practice of making the player stealth, by having all the population idle, and the player a place to move before he wakes the guard up.

04-12-10 18:46 #

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Spleen
Member

Posts: 497
Registered: 08-08

I much prefer monsters to be facing away from me at the start, since otherwise they can start attacking me just as the level finishes loading. This can especially be an issue in online source ports, on maps like HR2 MAP16, where you start out with a Cyberdemon shooting at you and killing you before you have a chance to react, if there's lag.

04-12-10 18:50 #