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yellowmadness54

how long will doom last?

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Technician said:

As long as there are computers that can run it, Doom will not die.


And as long as DOSBOX lives and Windows lives!

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As long as there are programmers for ports and editors who actively invite and implement feature requests, I'm convinced, that Doom will, at least, outlast me.

Often I have speculated about the longevity of DOOM if Graf Zahl had not implemented the DECORATE code. But that is now so much water under the bridge.

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Kappes Buur said:

As long as there are programmers for ports and editors who actively invite and implement feature requests, I'm convinced, that Doom will, at least, outlast me.


Don't forget, there is also Mocha Doom, my project to move Doom out of the C programming language once and for all and make it more developer-friendly, while maintaining binary data compatibility and including Boom-like enhancements.

Despite my RL duties, I'm still developing it, and who knows, maybe one day the best way to play Doom will be through a virtual machine of sorts ;-)

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Doom is god.

Other lesser games such as Halo and COD should be killed and sacrificed for Doom. Hell, I don't think Doom deserves to get those bullshit ones.

If Doom wishes to stay alive it will do so for eternity.

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I think the community will die eventually but doom will never be dead to me. As I've described in other threads, Doom is by far the pinnacle of my video gaming experience, and not yet has any other game come as close to reaching out in my direction as the target audience. Doom never ceases to bore me. I'm still finding entertainment in the IWAD maps, and even if I am interested in playing something different, I've developed the skills to create anything in Doom I could possibly want.

As far as I'm concerned, it is pretty near impossible to create anything that will ever be as good as Doom.

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In regards to the community, I'd like for you to bring your attention to the volume in which Doom news is posted now, as opposed to 3-5 years ago. It should also be noted that every single hosted page on Doomworld could be filed under 'Abandoned'. Newstuff has slowed down to less than a quarter of the speed in which it was posted even a year ago.

If it were a horse, I wouldn't quite shoot it yet.. but I'd be thinking about loading the rifle.

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Doom is an immortal phenomenon. I suppose its 117th anniversary will be celebrated as well as its 17th.

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Ed said:

In regards to the community, I'd like for you to bring your attention to the volume in which Doom news is posted now, as opposed to 3-5 years ago. It should also be noted that every single hosted page on Doomworld could be filed under 'Abandoned'. Newstuff has slowed down to less than a quarter of the speed in which it was posted even a year ago.

If it were a horse, I wouldn't quite shoot it yet.. but I'd be thinking about loading the rifle.


But look what Doom 3 did for the community. I expect Doom 4/5/6 will do the same thing, if not greater. FPS games are very popular right now, and you just know SOMEONE is interested in seeing "Where FPS games of today began".

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Mr. Freeze said:

But look what Doom 3 did for the community. I expect Doom 4/5/6 will do the same thing, if not greater. FPS games are very popular right now, and you just know SOMEONE is interested in seeing "Where FPS games of today began".


Tru dat. I actually began actively re-playing Doom after Doom 3 was annouced, and after a magazine bundled the full Absolution Doom 64 pack with its bonus CDs, which definitively threw me into the source port era, in 2004.

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There'll always be fresh new blood getting introduced to DooM, and making contributions either in the form of making wads, or in the form of speed running, getting involved in the development in the source port department, or even just being part of the audience that mappers release their maps to.

DooM will never fuckin die.

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The influx of new 'Doomers' recently was probably due to Doom3 & Doom featuring on XBox Arcade. It's gradually fading away, but things like these temporarily increase its life I guess. It will probably last another 10 years until only the really 'hardcore' fans remain, at least that's my guess. But think of all the amazing wads the future holds ;)

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The doom community seems very very active to me. Maybe because it's too easy to make new maps and we have plenty of them.

I am actually comparing it to some other retro communities I am involved for example 8bit demoscene communities. People are talking there about the scene dying yet they still exist. And there is the place where sometimes it takes months to see a single release which is even bad(!!!). And yet those scenes have not died.

I compare this with the weekly release of new WADs, several of them being nice surprises, both good vanilla and newschool maps to play, new ideas, also new ports, a lot of discussion, and it's just a game that is fun, people WILL play it, while people in 8bit communities will be reluctant to spent their time in such an obsolete machines.

Just a comparison. If 8bit communities from my experience are still somehow alive, doom with it's massive releases and big community will live for a long long time. I am actually surprise how alive is still Doom. That doesn't happen with other retro scenes. Releases fade away till not much is happening.

Another thing. People ask me why I don't get into MODing on modern games. I don't know. I was curious if there is as impressive MODing in modern engines as in doom but I can't find much info or good community sites. I think. I feel like Doom produces much more WADs than modern games but that's because it's easier of course.

And the ports. Of course. Doom is ported for everything there exists.

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Maes said:

True, but it's truer in fields such as literature, music and movies, where "old" status doesn't automatically equal to oblivion or inaccessibility.


What is a game ? I mean, what's unique to games when compared to literature, music and movies ?

Choice. Interaction.

Games are good when they offer interesting choices. There are multiple effective approaches, various pros and cons. This is what Warren Spencer says (the designer of Deus Ex).

Modern FPS games try very hard to be Hollywood movies. To make sure that everything is very pretty and polished, and you don't miss any carefully designed script, choice is eliminated.

DooM doesn't have cutscenes, and has barely any scripting. Instead, it has very good mechanics, and DooM2 is often brilliant. It has mastered choice and interaction. There are multiple paths through most levels, LOTS of monsters, large levels, infighting. Fast movement can be seen as a balance flaw, but it allows to manipulate monsters quite easily. This isn't about best effects, it's about pacing, varied ambushes and traps, monster variety and interactions. You play Doom - in modern games, you follow a path.
A game isn't automatically better than DooM because it came later. To beat DooM, you have to understand what made it great and improve upon it. Most games these days aren't even trying.

It's similar with Master of Magic. Unlike DooM, MoM is horrendously buggy (although the unnoficial 2010 patch called Insecticide fixed a couple of pages worth of bugs, and improved the AI in many areas). MoM, despite various balance flaws and terrible AI, still has unprecedenced strategic depth. There are many, many viable strategies and tactics.

It's actually pretty sad. Today, it's typical for a strategy game to be developed by 17 programmers and 27 artists... and artists are the bottleneck. It's no wonder MoM still compares very favorably to modern games if graphics is their priority !

Elemental: War of Magic tried to surpass it and failed miserably. Moral of the story:
Those who do not understand Master of Magic are doomed to reinvent it -- badly.

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One thing I can say is that Doom for sure has something CoD and Halo and most of the new FPS games do not have a lot of and that is quirkiness and personality.

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What usually kills the interest in something is the lack of communication among people sharing a common interest, which in modern times would translate as bbs' and forums closing down. One day Mr.Sysop decides his job is done and there goes the server. The community may then relocate somewhere else, but if it takes too long, it most likely won't continue to be as successful as it used to, vanishing quickly into total extinction. Appears to be some kind of psychological thing.

Older music and movies are everywhere, TV and radio keep them alive, people are being sporadically exposed to them in a way or a another so they never really die off. With Doom it's different, Doom is a video game, it has virtually no media exposure so you either get your fix from the internet or you'll never know it's there.

Fresh blood is always welcome, but even more important is to keep the old standard alive, the real classic Doom.

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Porsche Monty said:

What usually kills the interest in something is the lack of communication among people sharing a common interest, which in modern times would translate as bbs' and forums closing down. One day Mr.Sysop decides his job is done and there goes the server.


It's part of the equation, but I would blame the community if that works. Master of Magic (1994) has active community even today. Once a major forum (Dragonsword) went down, another one was created at Realms Beyond. There are mods, unnoficial patches (in assembly !) even today. People are discussing the best way to develop external AI, for DOS.

I'm much more worried about game music. Games are remembered, but music seldom is, and often it's hard to extract. Music is tied to a game, which is treated by publisher like a product. Once the game becomes technically outdated or just old news, they still charge money for it but no one buys. Music is effectively dead and it's illegal to distribute it.

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It seems that while Doom is no longer as popular as it used to be, and the communities within it aren't massive, one could still consider it alive. Whether it stays alive or not really depends on what the users end up creating for it. The day that people stop making mods will be that which doom stops getting played.

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I think DooM will last until someone makes a better game. It is still unsurpassed in its category.

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b0rsuk said:

I think DooM will last until someone makes a better game.


Unless someone resets humanity, this ain't gonna happen.

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b0rsuk said:

but music seldom is


What.
The.
Crap.

I think maybe you might want to visit a site like OCRemix before you go making silly claims like this. There are hundreds upon hundreds upon thousands of game songs that have stood the test of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrcUSiTj7JY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFcSBLP_4n4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Ao63nmzuE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF9ZLNxHaBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NITRZK8z0ek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-7118ocSFg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfPX-gg2xhk

Note that this stuff doesn't get 'lost to time', it is remembered, performed, remixed, sold as OST's.

Not to mention that the bulk of Bobby Prince's work on DOOM is actually (ripoffs/homages) to a LOT of prolific rock/metal music.

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MytiS said:

The day that people stop making mods will be that which doom stops getting played.


It really depends on who's playing. Some of you may like modifications, but I personally don't, save a few memorable exceptions by people who actually knew what they were doing. Maps are a slightly different story, though.

I still get a kick out of playing the official IWADS, they just don't seem to get old, but that's just me.

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Porsche Monty said:

It really depends on who's playing. Some of you may like modifications, but I personally don't, save a few memorable exceptions by people who actually knew what they were doing.

I seriously don't mean to be a bitch, but have you actually played any classic megawads? Or even some more modern ones? I have a very difficult time believing that anyone could say, hold doom2.wad in higher esteem than the memento mori wads. ID level design is pretty fucking bad tbh. Doom is what it is for one reason only, user created modifications, and will continue to be so in any future that it has.

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Quast said:

ID level design is pretty fucking bad tbh.

Hell naw. It's simplistic, especially compared to modern wads, but I'll be damned if it makes them bad in any regard. Remember that they defined not only the game but the entire genre beyond it -- It's almost a Seinfeld is Unfunny sort of situation.

Quast said:

Doom is what it is for one reason only, user created modifications, and will continue to be so in any future that it has.

This, however, is more or less true. Whether it's the "only" reason is debatable, but I dare anyone to try and argue that it's not the most important one.

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Quast said:

I seriously don't mean to be a bitch, but have you actually played any classic megawads?...
ID level design is pretty fucking bad tbh.


I'm sure Porsche Monty holds your opinion of the Doom levels in such high regard that you've just saved him from hours of torment. Idiot.

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Because Doom was a benchmark in gaming, and often refered too as the grandfather of moder FPS games, it will not die.

Just as Pac-Man and Mario will stick around into the next century or two, so will Doom.

Timeless games that will likely survive for centuries:

Pong
Asteroids
Pacman
Digdug
Donkey Kong
Super Mario Bros
Wolfenstein 3D
Doom
Duke Nukem 3D
Quake
GoldenEye (64)
Mario Kart
Warcraft

*EDIT*

Also keep in mind that Doom has been ported to a LOT of systems:
PC
Apple
Linux
SNES
32X
3DO
Jaguar
PS1
N64
GBA
XBOX
XBOX360 Live Arcade
Mobile Windows PC
iPad

And these are JUST the official ports..
Unofficial ports include

Wii
Dreamcast
Microsoft Zune
Android
Nintendo DS
PSP
Varios digital cameras, mobile pc's, and digital devices
TI 88
Spectrum ZX

and the list goes on and on..

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