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Demon of the Well
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mouldy said:
I think it is also down to how you enjoy playing the game. Not saving makes it quite a tense experience where you have to play quite conservatively and I can see the appeal of that, but I like to rush around recklessly like rambo spraying bullets (and consequently eating them).

I think it would be good to score not only the number of saves, but also the number of deaths. In fact that would be a more useful number for me.

Heh, well, I like to play heroically (read: stupidly / recklessly) as well, but I also go through the majority of maps without saving, precisely because I do like the feel of the higher stakes, and also because I think you can ultimately end up in some very interesting scenarios over the course of a map if you don't save (e.g. you don't repeat fights until you get a clean outcome or don't load a save right after just barely making it through a trap so that you can come through it mostly unscathed). I reckon a lot of it hinges on the player's attitudes about death. Being killed is a natural part of the game I generally don't feel resentment towards--indeed, I'm probably more liable to be critical of a map that I feel doesn't make any serious attempts on my life than I am of one that sends me to the grave many times over--and so I generally don't feel the need to play like my marine is made of glass (though it IS nice to occasionally encounter maps that are aesthetically oppressive enough that they sort of psychologically compel one to play that way). Don't get me wrong, I like to win, but I generally find it more satisfying and more fun to win while playing loose/brashly than I do playing very slowly and conservatively.

Anyway, my point was that no saving + risky playstyle are not necessarily mutually exclusive, and indeed they make quite a compelling team. The price is, of course, that you've inevitably got to be willing to accept with aplomb a few (sometimes more than a few) real deaths at times, as opposed to essentially consequence-free ones that can be erased moments later. Granted, not everyone has the time or patience to spend too long with any particular map, and for those folks, the save function is a real boon. Not that I'm categorically opposed to the save function, mind, since I too have limits on my time (if not my patience)--I think when the DWMC played Stardate 20X6 I used one save in map 05 and a couple to help me clear map 07 without spending hours and hours and hours on them. Map 06, though, I used no saves in....sure, it killed me several times, but I was enjoying that particular map so much I didn't mind repeating earlier portions after each death, which I suppose is a whole other facet to the issue of how people use saves. I can certainly see the sense in saving more frequently to help you make it through a map you aren't having any fun with in a more timely fashion, for instance (the completist in me largely discounting the possibility of simply skipping/not finishing the map, of course.....).

Old Post 02-07-14 02:54 #
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damerell
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Demon of the Well said:
Heh, well, I like to play heroically (read: stupidly / recklessly) as well, but I also go through the majority of maps without saving, precisely because I do like the feel of the higher stakes, and also because I think you can ultimately end up in some very interesting scenarios over the course of a map if you don't save


Exactly that. I play roguelikes for the same reason; whether or not you can beat an individual encounter is not really as interesting a question as whether you can come through a series of encounters doing well enough in each one to survive overall.


mouldy said:
I can see it as an extra challenge to beat a map without saving, but to have that as the default way of playing the game would limit the kind of maps you can comfortably play.



Well, yes; I don't like maps with unexpected deathtraps in, nor slaughtermap-style play where after each encounter a megasphere and a bucket of ammo turns up.

Old Post 02-07-14 05:20 #
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Kotzugi
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I save often when I play a map for the first time. For me, first-time play is more about exploring and enjoying the challenges the game throws at me than being competitive. That way, I can just run around and shoot stuff and go wild without worrying too much about staying alive.

If I know a map already, I will often challenge myself to finish it in one go, unless it's very hard and/or long. This simply depends on my abilities. If I know I'm very likely to die at this or that spot, I won't unnecessarily torture myself. I want to challenge myself while still enjoying the game.

If I'm making a speed run, I will torture myself. :)

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Old Post 02-07-14 06:48 #
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plums
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I would love a "save-quota" system of sorts. I like being able to save but mashing the quicksave key after every kill does kind of ruin the experience because I don't feel like I'm in danger at all. I think my ideal system would have you score points for killing enemies, finding items, etc., and every time you get a certain number of points you earn a save to be used whenever you want. Would be interesting to play a game like that, I don't think such a system is possible in Doom without making a new port though.

Sometimes I find myself at a point where saving gets me in trouble, like if I just scrape through a fight and realize how I should have handled it, saving puts me in a bad spot for the rest of the map. One level that comes to mind is Du Mhan Yu's excellent and very hard DMP2013 map "3 Ways From Hell", where I reached a point where I had to restart because I just didn't have enough ammo to proceed, since I didn't focus on killing the right things.

Old Post 02-07-14 10:54 #
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Kotzugi
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plums said:
I think my ideal system would have you score points for killing enemies, finding items, etc., and every time you get a certain number of points you earn a save to be used whenever you want.

Or checkpoints?

Old Post 02-07-14 11:05 #
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damerell
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If I may reconfess, I just started seriously chaingun-tapping. After 20 years.

If I was going to relax the no-saving rule, which I'm not, being up to MAP29 [1], I'd allow a save every time I got a supercharge or megasphere; that is a reasonable approximation to a checkpoint, and can't give you the "saved with 5% health" problem.

[1] although I must have died about a dozen times by now, with actual ragequits at the revenant ambush after teleporting and the final mancubi/revenant/cyberdemon shenanigans.

This is not so bad. If I may indulge in a little non-Doom confession, I'm quite badly depressed at the moment, in the "emotional blank" way. A ragequit at least is a burst of unequivocal emotion.

Plus, I use an IBM Model M, so it's not like I can actually snap my keyboard in half.

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Last edited by damerell on 02-11-14 at 08:19

Old Post 02-11-14 07:35 #
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DooM Soul
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I've grown fond of the Plasma Rifle lately.

It's almost the perfect weapon for almost any situation. But it has its flaws.

Still a nice gun though.

Old Post 02-12-14 03:20 #
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schwerpunk
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@ DooM Soul: dat A_Refire. At least, that and limited ammo (typically) are the only things I can think of that keep this from being The Perfect Weapon. Honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way - balance reasons, and that.

Confession of my own: I absolutely adore Brutal Doom's interpretation of the Plasma Rifle. I think it's actually my favourite part of the whole mod.


damerell said:
[. . .] I use an IBM Model M [. . .]
What was that? I couldn't hear you over the obnoxious clacking of your keys, eh he he! :]

But seriously, sorry to hear you've been feeling depressed. Hopefully it's a temporary stop rather than business as usual.

Old Post 02-12-14 04:38 #
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damerell
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schwerpunk said:
@ DooM Soul: dat A_Refire. At least, that and limited ammo (typically) are the only things I can think of that keep this from being The Perfect Weapon.


That and the tendency to administer a vigorous chastisement to any doorframes, corners of buildings, pillars etc between you and the target. Also, the way the projectiles have flight time mean it's pretty hard to avoid overkill unless you're going to keep waiting out the A_Refire to see if the target's dead.

As you say, balance; it's devastating, but only under the right circumstances. TBH in Doom II I mostly save the ammo for poxy pain elementals.


But seriously, sorry to hear you've been feeling depressed. Hopefully it's a temporary stop rather than business as usual.


I trust it'll pass. Thanks.

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Old Post 02-12-14 04:51 #
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Piper Maru
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DooM Soul said:
I've grown fond of the Plasma Rifle lately.

It's almost the perfect weapon for almost any situation. But it has its flaws.

Still a nice gun though.



The Plasma Gun is my favorite weapon.

Old Post 02-12-14 19:03 #
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Job
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If only one single feature from Brutal Doom could be ported to the original, I would want it to be the minigun to replace the chaingun. The original always felt and sounded like a popgun, whereas the BD minigun reminded me of another favorite - Turok's.

Old Post 02-12-14 20:29 #
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Gothic Box
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I have one that's even worse than save-scumming - I constantly use the resurrect console command.
And you though save-scumming was bad.

Old Post 02-16-14 00:27 #
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Piper Maru
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Gothic Box said:
I have one that's even worse than save-scumming - I constantly use the resurrect console command.
And you though save-scumming was bad.



I prefer buddha mode.

Old Post 02-16-14 04:00 #
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mrthejoshmon
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I hide easter eggs in my maps that are about something I wish I did but was too scared to do, and now I never will. That is a life lesson I wish I never learned.

I also like to hide cryptic messages out of the players reach that are made out of flats and symbolic shapped sectors.

Old Post 02-16-14 04:12 #
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cortlong50
Green Marine


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...i hope nobody has confessed this, its shameful.

my dirt-bag confession is that if i ultimately cant find the way to go or if i have a suspicion theres a secret exit in the level ill noclip right through that bad boy.

also ive probably faced like 8000 cyberdemons and fought like 11 of em, (only if i like the map pack enough to play along)....i seriously hate fighting fifteen of them beacuse someone wanted it to be hard. theyre supposed to be bosses....so i kill cyberdemon them. a lot.

im a dirtbag. i cant believe im telling anyone this. those are probably my darkest secrets.

besides the time i crapped my pants and hid the underwear in the plunger of the bathroom because i couldnt get the window open.

i trust you guys. you wont tell anyone.

Old Post 02-16-14 04:56 #
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Platinum Shell
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I cheated on Community Chest's map "Another Dead Hero", turning on god mode and jumping into the slime below and trying to figure out how to beat it, hating it. I watched a video that showed that skull switch that led to a relatively calm underground passage. Since then I've had this fascination of maps with slaughter-like starts but have a hidden passage or teleport to an area that lets you catch your breath.

Old Post 02-16-14 05:33 #
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Pleasure Elemental
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I sometimes feel guilty killing cacodemons because they're so cute.

seeing their face crumple up breaks my heart

Old Post 02-16-14 05:38 #
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purist
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cortlong50 said:
besides the time i crapped my pants and hid the underwear in the plunger of the bathroom because i couldnt get the window open.

i trust you guys. you wont tell anyone.



There is a custom title in here somewhere

Old Post 02-16-14 08:52 #
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Doomtodeath
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I think that those digitized weapon sprites from troll wads look good.

http://i.imgur.com/l40cQgB.png

Old Post 02-16-14 12:33 #
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plums
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Pleasure Elemental said:
I sometimes feel guilty killing cacodemons because they're so cute.


http://i.imgur.com/lJKA335.jpg

Old Post 02-16-14 13:22 #
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Getsu Fune
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I recently downloaded this pink palette somewhere to play with and really loved it ever since.

Old Post 02-16-14 15:29 #
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Cell
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I confess I was willing to make a beautiful-looking map and ask for a video maker to do a gameplay with video cuts at certain points in the level just like the beautiful-looking map was yet another Terry wad.

Old Post 02-16-14 23:23 #
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Piper Maru
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I confess I'm playing Risen3d with models and I'm loving it.

Old Post 02-17-14 02:14 #
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machoman127
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Piper Maru said:
I confess I'm playing Risen3d with models and I'm loving it.

So do I, the Risen3D/models combo rules (at least for me).

Old Post 02-19-14 00:17 #
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FreddBoy
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Well, a few that I would like to share...

1) I've only recently played DOOM on the PC. No joke. All the other times were the PSX DOOM and the one available on the Xbox live arcade.

2) When replaying DOOM 2 (again via Xbox live arcade, the shame!) I had to YouTube how to find the secret level Wolfenstein as I had forgotten how to get to it since playing the GBA version...

3) Realising that I thought I was a good console FPS player would transfer well to Brutal DOOM. Several ads kickings later, my muscle memory is SLIGHTLY better.

Old Post 02-19-14 08:01 #
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Sqrrt121
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Whenever I am playing coop I go all lone wolf and try to get as much score as possible and try to get more than everyone alse

Old Post 02-19-14 08:17 #
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Cell
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I confess I've never tried any genre of multiplayer and I'm not willing to do so either.

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Old Post 02-19-14 20:35 #
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Sqrrt121
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I cannot play brutal doom for more tan a couple of levels

Old Post 02-20-14 04:52 #
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Inkie
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Explosive barrels never occur to me while making levels.

Never used them yet, and could never figure out good placement when I do think about them.

Old Post 02-21-14 02:39 #
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Kotzugi
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I love it when they're next to a cluster of zombies. The psychopath in me rejoices when they're blown into little giblets.

Old Post 02-21-14 07:33 #
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