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MajorRawne
Member

Posts: 446
Registered: 04-10

Hi everyone, I've recently been playing Final Doom on the PC (courtesy of Steam's ID Software bundle) and am noticing quite a lot of differences between this and the PSX version.

While I know that certain elements were cut from the PSX version for technical reasons, one thing that really sticks out is how different the monster deployment can be between the two versions. Does anyone know why this is?

The main thing I noticed is that apart from one tiny room in Human Barbecue, there are no Barons in PSX Doom. At all. Even on the Baron's Lair map. And when you do encounter the Baron, it's stuck on a pedestal where it can't even get to you. Why the hell did they take Barons out of the game? Another example would be Crater, one of my all-time favourite (and downright weirdest) maps, where Barons are replaced by Arachnotrons and Shotgunners in one room, and Hell Knights outdoors.

Just to round this off, I know the PSX version is a lot slower and loses so many levels compared to the PC version, but I prefer the atmosphere of evil and fear in PSX Final Doom. The revised music and sound effects really help with this.

09-16-11 17:10 #

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GoatLord
Senior Member

Posts: 1414
Registered: 07-02

You forgot to mention that mancubuses (mancubi?) only appear in like one or two maps, there's only one cybie, and no spider mastermind, even though he's one of the enemies that appears at the very end, where you can go through all the enemies with the Icon of Sin background.

I've thought about this a lot myself. Ultra Violence plays more like Hurt Me Plenty. I used to think that the change in monster placement was an attempt to make the game easier, since you can only save between maps, and only via password, but the "cameos" by the mancubi and barons are unacceptable.

However, the archvile was removed because it has a lot of frames of animation and therefore would have taken up too much memory. Perhaps the mancubus, which has more walking frames and is a fairly large sprite, had a similar issue, and only a few of them could appear in the game. The barons have the same amount of frames as the hell knights, though. I don't know. Let's get to the bottom of this!

09-16-11 18:05 #

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Dragonsbrethren
Forum Regular

Posts: 765
Registered: 03-09

I figure it was just to reduce difficulty since you're playing with a controller (Final Doom's mouse support sucks) and Final Doom was harder than Doom 2 to beginwith. I suppose it could be a memory issue too; maybe they didn't have enough to allow all of the monsters to be loaded at the same time.

09-16-11 19:10 #

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MajorRawne
Member

Posts: 446
Registered: 04-10

Goatlord - I didn't forget, I just didn't want to make an epic post ;)

I also noticed the Mancubi are as rare as rocking horse poo throughout Final Doom. Thankfully they toned down the Revenant/Chaingunner spam, another reason I prefer Final Doom on the PSX. I noticed from watching playthroughs on Youtube that in Vesperas, as soon as you step out into the courtyard, on the PC version you get sniped at by Revenants and on the PSX it's Hell Knights instead.

This leads to another question: why were some enemies toned down on the PSX? Revenants were much slower and their missiles were a joke, though given the more sluggish movement in PSX Doom, that's a good thing. But Cacodemons are just pathetic, and Lost Souls are much easier to destroy (I find them unnecessarily hard to kill on PC Doom given that they are basically just a flaming skull).

Dragonsbrethren - Yes it was very hard when it first came out, much harder than Ultimate Doom/Doom 2. I still remember a Playstation magazine's review, "This is the first level and already we have a Revenant here". I found the tone of PSX Final Doom much darker than the original, the music was more menacing, the lighting was much creepier and some of the levels were just plain dangerous.

09-16-11 20:19 #

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Mattfrie1
Member

Posts: 407
Registered: 03-09

MajorRawne said:
This leads to another question: why were some enemies toned down on the PSX?

I could be wrong here, but I think all the enemies in both PSX Doom and Final Doom had their health points decrease. I've seen Zombiemen get gibbed by both the lost soul's standard attack AND by fellow Zombiemen shooting at each other during infighting, something which I have yet to see while playing PC Doom. As to why, I don't know. It was probably just the developers choice.

09-16-11 20:58 #

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buttspit
Member

Posts: 257
Registered: 04-11

You know, I was about to ask if there were any Barons at all in Final Doom. My most recent playthrough seemed devoid of them, granted I was playing on I Am A Wimp.

09-17-11 03:46 #

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Du Mhan Yhu
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Posts: 514
Registered: 12-10

MajorRawne said:
I also noticed the Mancubi are as rare as rocking horse poo

What?! rofl.

09-17-11 04:02 #

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GoatLord
Senior Member

Posts: 1414
Registered: 07-02

Mattfrie1, I've experienced that as well, zombies being gibbed easily. So they may actually have decreased health. It would be cool if there were an easy way to hack the disc so it could be more difficult.

09-17-11 17:26 #

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Marcaek
Forum Regular

Posts: 713
Registered: 12-10

Is map14 from the PC version included in PSX Final Doom?

09-17-11 18:56 #

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MajorRawne
Member

Posts: 446
Registered: 04-10

Hi, neither the Steel Works or Genesis maps made it into PSX Final Doom. These were the maps: (thought I'd relive some memories by posting this)

-MASTER LEVELS-
These were generally my favourite levels of the game. They were nearly all fun, with difficulty levels a noticeable (and very welcome) step up from PSX Doom. Shout outs to Canyon, Geryon, Minos and particularly Vesperas as my pick of the bunch. Vesperas, with the PSX Toxin Refinery track, was about as close to Dooming nirvana as you can get.

LEVEL 01: ATTACK
LEVEL 02: VIRGIL
LEVEL 03: CANYON
LEVEL 04: COMBINE
LEVEL 05: CATWALK
LEVEL 06: FISTULA
LEVEL 07: GERYON
LEVEL 08: MINOS
LEVEL 09: NESSUS
LEVEL 10: PARADOX
LEVEL 11: SUBSPACE
LEVEL 12: SUBTERRA
LEVEL 13: VESPERAS

-TNT EVILOUTION-
This is where things started to get creepy, then scary, then downright terrifying. The music, the fiendish level design and the lack of in-game saving made these maps a far different experience to the original PC version, and I don't really see how you could replicate the growing sense of dread from the PSX version. I found the difficulty level took a sharp step up from Lunar Mining Project onwards.

LEVEL 14: SYSTEM CONTROL
LEVEL 15: HUMAN BARBECUE
LEVEL 16: WORMHOLE
LEVEL 17: CRATER
LEVEL 18: NUKAGE PROCESSING
LEVEL 19: DEEPEST REACHES
LEVEL 20: PROCESSING AREA
LEVEL 21: LUNAR MINING PROJECT
LEVEL 22: QUARRY
LEVEL 23: BALLISTYX
LEVEL 24: HECK

-PLUTONIA EXPERIMENT-
I don't really rate any of these maps and was disappointed with all of them. Onslaught felt like an anticlimax after the adventure of the Master Levels and the fear of Evilution, not surprising considering Onslaught was just a random map in the PC original.
LEVEL 25: CONGO
LEVEL 26: AZTEC
LEVEL 27: GHOST TOWN
LEVEL 28: BARON'S LAIR
LEVEL 29: THE DEATH DOMAIN
LEVEL 30: ONSLAUGHT

09-17-11 23:34 #

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DoomUK
Forum Staple

Posts: 2228
Registered: 04-04

I always felt PSX Final Doom represented a "best of" compilation from the Master Levels, TNT and Plutonia, despite the obvious technical disadvantages the system had. And of course, the music was better. To each his own I guess.

09-18-11 12:25 #

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Vermil
Senior Member

Posts: 1223
Registered: 03-04

MajorRawne said:

-PLUTONIA EXPERIMENT-
I don't really rate any of these maps and was disappointed with all of them. Onslaught felt like an anticlimax after the adventure of the Master Levels and the fear of Evilution, not surprising considering Onslaught was just a random map in the PC original.

Indeed, going from Heck, a Hell map, to non-hell maps and ultimately standard tech base like maps, when the first maps of the game were standard tech bases, is perhaps a bit anticlimactic.

09-18-11 18:14 #

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MajorRawne
Member

Posts: 446
Registered: 04-10

Agreed. Not only that but I thought the Plutonia level design was crap - generally too boring, and rather difficult back when I was only 16, especially without being able to save. Not wanting to start a flame war BTW, I just didn't like Plutonia at all, on any system.

Tried playing a few PSX FDoom maps the other day on my PS3. Couldn't believe how poor the resolution was over long distances, but it brought back a weird buzz: I used to love being able to see figures moving far in the distance but not be able to tell who they were. It added to PSX Doom's weird, melancholy atmosphere.

09-27-11 21:55 #

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Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > PSX Final Doom - monster deployment

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