Archvile
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Doom 64 mising monsters rant
 
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 21:24. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
GoatLord
Senior Member


Posts: 1414
Registered: 07-02


Considering that the spectre is a reused demon, the nightmare imp is a reused imp, and the pistol guys look identical to the shotgun guys, why didn't Midway use that extra sprite information for two or three of the missing enemies? I understand that the sprites were bigger, and thus sucked up more memory, but their attempt at compensating could have been used to say, implement the archvile and revenant. I think players would have been okay sacrificing the spectre and nightmare imps for that, maybe even the pistol guys, in order to have the two baddest-ass monsters in the game.

Old Post 09-28-11 17:31 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7040
Registered: 07-07


Sacrificing the spectre and nightmare imp wouldn't have freed any room for more sprites, because as you cleverly noticed they use the same sprites as the demon and imp. So, truly sacrificing the spectre and NI would have meant sacrificing also the demon and imp.

What's more important, archvile and revenant, or imp and demon?

Old Post 09-28-11 17:36 #
Gez is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Senior Member


Posts: 1414
Registered: 07-02



Gez said:
Sacrificing the spectre and nightmare imp wouldn't have freed any room for more sprites, because as you cleverly noticed they use the same sprites as the demon and imp. So, truly sacrificing the spectre and NI would have meant sacrificing also the demon and imp.

What's more important, archvile and revenant, or imp and demon?



So what you're saying is, recolored sprites don't take up additional memory?

Old Post 09-28-11 18:52 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7040
Registered: 07-07


Nope, they don't -- they only take up the space needed for their own palette, which is 768 bytes per monster.

Note that Baron/Hell Knights are done this way too; contrarily to PC Doom where they have two different sprite sets.

Old Post 09-28-11 18:56 #
Gez is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
vinnie245
Mini-Member


Posts: 79
Registered: 08-11


Archvile wasn't going to be in it regardless since he wasn't even in the PSX version, only ones that were truly missed were the Revenant and the Chaingunner.
I'd like someone to do a N64 rendition of them but they'll need to fit into D64's unique style which isn't exactly easy.

Old Post 09-28-11 20:57 #
vinnie245 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7040
Registered: 07-07


If someone were to make Doom 64 revenants, chaingunners and arch-viles, that would allow to create Plutonia 64.

Old Post 09-28-11 21:34 #
Gez is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Average
Junior Member


Posts: 142
Registered: 05-11


Ask Footman. He's got Doom64 Revenants and chaingunners already made. Maybe it's time they were included in a new project? *crosses fingers that it'll happen...*

Old Post 09-28-11 21:42 #
Average is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
jute
My avatar grips his belt rather tightly.


Posts: 1299
Registered: 03-03



vinnie245 said:

I'd like someone to do a N64 rendition of them but they'll need to fit into D64's unique style which isn't exactly easy.



I think replicating Doom 64's monsters, based on 3D models, would be far easier than replicating Doom's monsters, based on clay models.

Old Post 09-28-11 23:20 #
jute is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Marcaek
Forum Regular


Posts: 713
Registered: 12-10



Gez said:
Plutonia 64.


oh god yes

Old Post 09-28-11 23:28 #
Marcaek is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
jute
My avatar grips his belt rather tightly.


Posts: 1299
Registered: 03-03


Here is a completed commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=30#p556841

Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...1&hilit=Doom+64

Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=15#p550555

Old Post 09-29-11 00:46 #
jute is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Du Mhan Yhu
Member


Posts: 514
Registered: 12-10



Gez said:
If someone were to make Doom 64 revenants, chaingunners and arch-viles, that would allow to create Plutonia 64.



Now, that would be awesome!

Old Post 09-29-11 01:02 #
Du Mhan Yhu is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Mithran Denizen
Senior Member


Posts: 1093
Registered: 05-10



jute said:
Here is a completed commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=30#p556841
I'm not really fond of how scrawny this guy looks, though I guess it's a lot better than nothing. I also think the stylistic clash of pasting the Doom 2 chaingunner parts onto the Doom 64 former human sprite is a bit off-putting, but maybe that's just me.

As demonstrated here, the chaingunner is potentially the easiest of the missing enemies to make sprites for, because the basic zombie sprites are available. As far as I can tell, the Doom 2 chaingun guy is based on the same basic player/zombieman/shotgunner sprite, just recolored and redrawn to be bulkier. If that approach were taken here so that he didn't look so thin, it would be a huge improvement in my eyes.

If I get frisky, I might try doing it that way myself, because my WIP Doom64 chaingunner model's proportions and armor style stray a bit too far from the other two former human enemies (and I probably don't have the modelling skill to make it more accurate).


Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...1&hilit=Doom+64

I couldn't find any new revenant sprites in Footman's stuff (not to knock the guy, but most of the new graphics in there seem to be fairly lazy recolors and patchwork). The PSX revenant sounds are included, though, along with some DECORATE to make the revenant slower and fire two missiles per attack. Spiderdemon sounds from PSX Doom are also in there, to go along with some recolored arachnotron sprites.

I'm not seeing any chaingun dude in there, though (and the nightmare imp replaces the standard chaingunner via decorate), so I don't know about that. A google search earlier today brought me a screenshot of a bloodied player sprite that was apparently Footman's chaingunner, but it didn't really strike me as being all that impressive, compared with the above former human sprite edits.


Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=15#p550555
I think a complete set of such recolored sprites for the shotgun guy might be interesting, though I sort of like how the two zombies in Doom 64 are harder to distinguish. You can't always tell which of the zombies strolling around the area are just harmless chumps and which are actually dangerous, so this uncertainty sort of factors into gameplay and the way you approach new situations.

Old Post 09-29-11 04:18 #
Mithran Denizen is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Sigvatr
Can't post


Posts: 852
Registered: 08-07


What we need is a wealthy philanthropist Doomer to pay for someone to make 3d models for all of this crap, since we all suck at doing everything.

Old Post 09-29-11 06:29 #
Sigvatr is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
Senior Member


Posts: 1414
Registered: 07-02


Maybe I should learn animation.

Old Post 09-29-11 07:52 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
_bruce_
Forum Regular


Posts: 799
Registered: 11-07



jute said:
Here is a completed commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=30#p556841

Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...1&hilit=Doom+64

Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=15#p550555



Damn - looks great!

Old Post 09-29-11 09:42 #
_bruce_ is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
J-selva
Junior Member


Posts: 179
Registered: 08-05



Sigvatr said:
What we need is a wealthy philanthropist Doomer to pay for someone to make 3d models for all of this crap, since we all suck at doing everything.


What the fuck is your problem?

Old Post 09-29-11 23:29 #
J-selva is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.


Posts: 5063
Registered: 08-07



jute said:
Here is a completed commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=30#p556841

Here is Footman's work, apparently including both a player sprite-based commando and a revenant: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...1&hilit=Doom+64

Here are single sprites of a new shotgun guy and a different commando: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.ph...tart=15#p550555



Please god no

Old Post 09-30-11 04:38 #
40oz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Sigvatr
Can't post


Posts: 852
Registered: 08-07



J-selva said:
What the fuck is your problem?


Hi I don't believe we have met.

Old Post 09-30-11 09:27 #
Sigvatr is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Maes
I like big butts!


Posts: 8661
Registered: 07-06


Those sprites would look awesome in Thundra.

Old Post 09-30-11 09:49 #
Maes is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Vader
Member


Posts: 469
Registered: 02-05



Mithran Denizen said:

As far as I can tell, the Doom 2 chaingun guy is based on the same basic player/zombieman/shotgunner sprite, just recolored and redrawn to be bulkier. If that approach were taken here so that he didn't look so thin, it would be a huge improvement in my eyes.



IIRC the Doom2 chaingunner is actually based on a Wolf3d enemy (Hans Grosse?). If you compare it with the other Zombies or the Player, you'll see that the sprites don't have much in common except for the basic human shape!

Old Post 09-30-11 10:03 #
Vader is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Maes
I like big butts!


Posts: 8661
Registered: 07-06



Vader said:
IIRC the Doom2 chaingunner is actually based on a Wolf3d enemy (Hans Grosse?).


Well, if we discount the fact that almost every boss in Wolf 3D has at least TWO chainguns, you could say that. The only resemblance I can see is that he's wearing a more futuristic suit than the other zombies, more like the "Nazis in Space" theme that Wolf3D bosses have.

Then again Hans Grosse is a Pure Aryan Warrior of sorts, while the chaingunner is nigga/chink ;-)

Old Post 09-30-11 10:27 #
Maes is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Mithran Denizen
Senior Member


Posts: 1093
Registered: 05-10



Vader said:
IIRC the Doom2 chaingunner is actually based on a Wolf3d enemy (Hans Grosse?). If you compare it with the other Zombies or the Player, you'll see that the sprites don't have much in common except for the basic human shape!

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion. The chaingunner clearly has the same armor shape and patterns as the player sprites and other two zombies. As a demonstration, here is a GIF that overlays a slightly resized shotgunner on the chaingun guy:

http://i.imgur.com/S1K16.gif

You can see the same armor patterns, particularly on the boots, shoulders, and chest area, and aside from several obviously redrawn sections, plenty of details line up.

Given that wolfenstein's bosses only have a single sprite angle I don't see how the chaingunners could be based on Hans Grosse anyway, and none of the other sprites in wolfenstein really match either. Here's Hans, for reference:

http://i.imgur.com/5CIVu.gif

Last edited by Mithran Denizen on 09-30-11 at 22:26

Old Post 09-30-11 18:45 #
Mithran Denizen is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 21:24. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
 
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Doom 64 mising monsters rant

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Forums Directory