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C30N9
Senior Member

Posts: 1015
Registered: 11-10

Heretic and Hexen are known for making Doom atmosphere into a magical place.

I never played them before and I thought they're lame (sorry fans), but it is not wise to judge a book by it's cover.

However, for any of you played them, what do you think of?

10-02-11 11:13 #

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DooM_RO
Junior Member

Posts: 145
Registered: 02-11

I think Heretic/Hexen are very good, especially hexen because it brought more improvements to the engine than doom 2 did.However I can't play it for too long because the music is just so depressing, it's one of the few games that has music that delivers powerful emotions.

The atmosphere is very foreboding and is definitely not a cheery fantasy world.

Oh you should also try the Curse of D'Sparil WAD by Kristus, it's VERY good!

10-02-11 11:22 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7040
Registered: 07-07

Well, they have lame fantasy elements such as demons, undead, monsters that throw fireballs at you out of their hands, and teleporters to travel between levels. Thank goodness Doom doesn't have such magical silliness.

10-02-11 11:23 #

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Khorus
Strife!

Posts: 1129
Registered: 04-05

I personally prefer Strife, but they're very solid games. It's great that there are some projects trickling out that take advantage of the gameplay options (for Heretic at least).

10-02-11 11:51 #

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DooM_RO
Junior Member

Posts: 145
Registered: 02-11

Gez said:
Well, they have lame fantasy elements such as demons, undead, monsters that throw fireballs at you out of their hands, and teleporters to travel between levels. Thank goodness Doom doesn't have such magical silliness.

How ironic...Doom has everything you included in your post

10-02-11 11:53 #

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Grazza
Super Moderator

Posts: 11450
Registered: 07-02

^ No shit, Sherlock.

Definitely try Heretic. You may find the weapons a touch less satisfying than those in Doom, but the level design is great, and the action is pretty good. To spice things up, try the top skill level (there's no respawning, so it's not quite like Doom's Nightmare!) and try out each of the powered-up weapons - they do some surprising things, particularly the gauntlets.

Then maybe move on to Hexen if you enjoy puzzles and don't mind levels taking a long time, and having a fairly limited arsenal (play as the Mage if you don't want to spend all your time physically beating Ettins to death). It's a good game, but further removed from Doom-style gameplay. If you like Zdoom levels that make very extensive use of polyobjects and hubs, etc., then it may also appeal.

(And moved to Classic Doom General, as threads about Doom-engine games belong there too.)

10-02-11 12:12 #

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Jodwin
Forum Staple

Posts: 2740
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Heretic is good; its problems are boring weapons (phoenix rod is much more lame than Doom's rocket launcher, the mace is strange, and there's three rapid fire weapons (including the mace)) and unappealing monster gallery, but I like the levels and visual style.

10-02-11 12:38 #

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hex11
Senior Member

Posts: 1481
Registered: 09-09

I like them, but not quite as much as Doom. Hexen has a really amazing atmosphere, but it got a bit tedious at times when trying to complete a puzzle. If you don't even know which hub map to search in, you keep backtracking between maps and running into the same monsters that keep respawning indefinitely... Maybe it would have been better if there were a few people you could talk to and get some clues, stories about the game world, etc. I think that might even be possible with just ACS, because there's an old Hexen PWAD that does a little bit of that (starship.wad). Ah, here's the /newstuff review for it:
http://www.doomworld.com/php/topstory.php?id=2790

10-02-11 13:24 #

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kmxexii
Member

Posts: 537
Registered: 06-10

Pretty much what Grazza said. I played the Hell out of the shareware episode when I was a kid and couldn't get enough of it. Hexen is a bit of a different beast and while I enjoy it I know the playstyle differs from Heretic's (and Doom's) significantly.

__________________
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10-02-11 13:54 #

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Vaporizer
Forum Regular

Posts: 712
Registered: 08-10

Heretic has some of the best level design in 2,5D FPS games. No, not just 2,5D FPS games, but all FPS games. Hexen is pretty good too, although it's level design is not really that good.

10-02-11 14:12 #

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fraggle
Super Moderator

Posts: 5999
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DooM_RO said:

How ironic...Doom has everything you included in your post

That's not irony, it's sarcasm.

10-02-11 14:13 #

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yellowmadness54
Senior Member

Posts: 1148
Registered: 03-10

I honestly like heretic a little more than doom.

Heretic is very fun, and the monsters are really cool. Same with Hexen, but hexen was a bit boring at times.

@Fraggle: sarcasm IS a form of irony.

10-02-11 15:34 #

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fraggle
Super Moderator

Posts: 5999
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No it isn't.

10-02-11 16:10 #

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baronofheck82
Junior Member

Posts: 122
Registered: 02-10

I'm a big fan of both Heretic and Hexen. Whenever I get bored with playing Doom, I load up Heretic or Hexen. I love the dark fantasy world in both games, but Hexen has a much darker atmosphere than Heretic. I also love the level design in both games. I do prefer Doom over these two games, but I still love them.

10-02-11 16:12 #

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yellowmadness54
Senior Member

Posts: 1148
Registered: 03-10

fraggle said:
No it isn't.

Regardless, in that case it was use of irony in a sarcastic manner.

So, yup. It accomplishes nothing.

10-02-11 16:20 #

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vinnie245
Mini-Member

Posts: 79
Registered: 08-11

I actually preferred Hexen over Heretic, while Heretic felt like a good TC to Doom it never really felt like it's own game, Hexen definitely is it's own game.
Plus i also liked Hexens atmosphere and puzzle elements more than Heretics straightforward shooting, Heretic definitely got tedious after a while.
For me the golden 4 of that era will always be Doom - Blood - Duke Nukem 3D - Hexen (In that order)

10-02-11 16:22 #

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Wagi
Member

Posts: 273
Registered: 11-10

Heretic is fun and the monsters are a bit more interesting behavior-wise. I think you'll like how the gargoyles will stop moving, charge at you, claw, or throw a fireball. In Doom, enemies are only capable of using one projectile and one melee attack. In heretic, you'll have monsters that summon walls of fire, tornadoes, and ice blasts.

The game has a much more "colorful" look to it later in the game.

10-02-11 17:41 #

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Blzut3
Junior Member

Posts: 210
Registered: 06-04

They're both great games. Hexen is a little hard to play since the puzzles on the hubs aren't exactly straightforward. Once you play the game once with a guide you'll likely remember enough to solve them again (and there are 3 classes for more replay value). Heretic is very similar to Doom in terms of game play.

Jodwin said:
its problems are boring weapons

Honestly it seems like Heretic was balanced towards deathmatch. Even though there aren't many deathmatch maps for Heretic when it was commonly played on Skulltag it was a blast. Unlike Doom it doesn't come down to super shotgun or plasma/BFG spam as all weapons are approximately equal in power it seems (and the tome usually makes up for those that aren't).

10-02-11 17:41 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7040
Registered: 07-07

The tomed firemace is certainly more worthy of being the ultimate semi-secret weapon in deathmatch than in single player. Though it would be quite useful in a slaughtermappish environment when there are plenty of tough non-boss critters (disciples, ophidians, weredragons...). In normal gameplay situations or against bosses, it's not that useful. And against ghost monsters, it's utterly useless.

10-02-11 17:49 #

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magicsofa
Senior Member

Posts: 1387
Registered: 04-03

I found heretic on the highest difficulty was sometimes easier...since no enemies have hitscan attacks, they will just sit where they first see you and endlessly shoot until you kill them. Although, melee monsters are a problem, and there were tough moments like the start of E4 where I kept running out of ammo.

Anyway both are awesome, but as others have said hexen is more removed from doom gameplay. It wasn't until many years of dooming that I finally played all the way through hexen, because some of the maps take forever and can really frustrate you. However, it resulted in some very satisfying exploration and made the game mysterious. Using a walkthrough on the parts that truly baffle you is a good way to keep the game moving.

10-02-11 18:09 #

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DeathevokatioN
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Posts: 2089
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Both games are perfection to me.

10-02-11 18:44 #

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Marnetmar
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Posts: 2025
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If you don't like Hexen I will find out where you live.

10-02-11 18:59 #

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Grain of Salt
Member

Posts: 629
Registered: 12-10

I like Hexen more than Doom.

10-02-11 19:11 #

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C30N9
Senior Member

Posts: 1015
Registered: 11-10

Marnetmar said:
If you don't like Hexen I will find out where you live.

Good luck! I'm at the South Pole!

10-02-11 19:14 #

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PRIMEVAL
Senior Member

Posts: 1395
Registered: 03-09

Heretic is basically just a TC for Doom, it doesn't add too much to the engine. Some wind and flowing water, but I haven't really noticed much more. However, the levels are very nice despite having less textures to work with. Weapons are nothing special, and are very Doom-esque if you think about it (except the Mace). Definitely recommended.

Hexen has a much better atmosphere and cool level design, but I'm not very big into massive puzzles for FPS games. Limited weapon selection, but it's not like you need a huge arsenal anyway. Cool monsters, cool player classes, and what weapons you have are neat. Also recommended.

10-02-11 19:31 #

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hex11
Senior Member

Posts: 1481
Registered: 09-09

It's stretching it to call Heretic a Doom TC, because it does a lot of things that (vanilla) Doom couldn't, not even with DeHackEd. Now Doom II, that's much closer to a Doom TC. ;)

10-02-11 19:45 #

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Phobus
Senior Member

Posts: 1470
Registered: 10-06

I don't like Heretic much due to the way everything feels. The enemies all seem a bit weak, but the weapons seem pretty weak as well. I think the main problem for me is that it's a bit too close to just being Doom with an inventory and a few other new tricks, as the weapons largely feel like low-power fantasy reskins (bar the mace, which is quite unique, even if it doesn't seem much good). There's some nice ideas, but it's not for me.

HeXen is quite interesting, as it does play very differently from Doom, has player classes that give some interesting options and does a lot more in terms of map functionality. However, I thought the reliance on puzzles kind of dragged it down, especially when a script doesn't trigger or work. The first hub seems needlessly confusing too, whilst I remember the later ones being a bit more straight forward (when they worked).

10-02-11 20:44 #

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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.

Posts: 5063
Registered: 08-07

If you're going to try any of them I would definitely reccomend you try Heretic first. It's very similar to Doom, the weapons are basically magical knockoff's of Doom's (to some degree) so you'll feel right at home once you start playing it. It might take a little to adapt to what pickups do what and to accumulating and using inventory items but it's not really a huge change. The music is awesome, the gameplay is fast and frantic (a bit more explosive than Doom even) and tons of fun to play.

Hexen branches off of Heretic and sort of into its own direction which will probably be a little more difficult to absorb if you go to it straight from playing Doom. Hexen features a lot of unique linedef actions and traps and puzzles. In my experience I didn't have as much fun with Hexen as I did with Heretic. If you've ever played Eternal Doom, the level design is similar to the way many of its maps have you running around in circles, area to area, searching hopelessly for that one key or switch that reveals some sort of progress. Not my cup of tea i guess.

10-03-11 07:24 #