Doom monster
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > TNT map 27 Mt Pain seemingly limitless lost souls?
 
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 22:33. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Face23785
Junior Member


Posts: 171
Registered: 04-11
TNT Map 27, Mount Pain, is one of my favorite levels of TNT. I was just playing through it and realized that at the end when you're battling on that catwalk around the lava pit, there's seems to be a never-ending supply of lost souls coming from outside. If I camp out and try to kill them all, they eventually start coming less frequently, but never seem to stop.

What's the deal here?
Old Post 11-20-11 00:59 #
Face23785 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
buttspit
Member


Posts: 257
Registered: 04-11
There's either a Pain Elemental somewhere that's out of your view... The level is quite big as it is.

Or maybe you're mistaking it for a small lava structure made of big stairs. It's near the outdoor edges of the map. The stairs seem to be tagged heavily with teleporters. There, a bunch of Lost Souls keep teleporting all over that structure.
Old Post 11-20-11 01:59 #
buttspit is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
vdgg
Moderator


Posts: 872
Registered: 08-07
There are no pain elementals on MAP27. 42 lost souls on skill 4&5, 32 lost souls on skill 1,2&3.
Old Post 11-20-11 08:48 #
vdgg is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
buttspit
Member


Posts: 257
Registered: 04-11
Oh ok then those were Lost Souls from around the map, but they're clearly not limitless.
Old Post 11-20-11 17:24 #
buttspit is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Face23785
Junior Member


Posts: 171
Registered: 04-11
Yeah of course they're not limitless, I was just curious where they were all comin from and was too lazy to look into it myself. I was certain the wealth of doom knowledge here could answer it faster than i could figure it out.

Thanks.
Old Post 11-21-11 02:37 #
Face23785 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
1ntru
Member


Posts: 348
Registered: 12-07
So this map breaks the original limit of 21 Lost Souls on Vanilla Doom? I never knew it was possible.

__________________
You are very welcome to watch my speed demos: http://www.youtube.com/user/1ntru
Old Post 11-21-11 04:27 #
1ntru is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Processingcontrol
Senior Member


Posts: 1153
Registered: 09-10
There is no limit to the amount of lost souls you can put in map. The "21 lost souls limit" is how pain elementals can only make lost souls if there are 21 or less already in a map.
Old Post 11-21-11 04:52 #
Processingcontrol is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Face23785
Junior Member


Posts: 171
Registered: 04-11
That's an interesting nuance to it I guess.
Old Post 11-21-11 17:24 #
Face23785 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
StupidBunny
Forum Regular


Posts: 835
Registered: 09-07
Processingcontrol said:
There is no limit to the amount of lost souls you can put in map. The "21 lost souls limit" is how pain elementals can only make lost souls if there are 21 or less already in a map.


This perhaps being part of the reason there are no pain elementals on this map.
Old Post 11-21-11 22:18 #
StupidBunny is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Grazza
Super Moderator


Posts: 11450
Registered: 07-02
Processingcontrol said:
pain elementals can only make lost souls if there are 21 or less already in a map.
That's out by one. They can only produce a lost soul if there are 20 or fewer. That's why 21 is the limit. If there are 20, they can produce 1. If there are 21, they cannot produce any more.
Old Post 11-21-11 22:43 #
Grazza is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Face23785
Junior Member


Posts: 171
Registered: 04-11
Actually nobody answered my question about where they're coming from? I can see some teleporter action on one of the structures outside the map which I assume is supposed to be Mount Pain. But what triggers them to start teleporting in and by what mechanism?
Old Post 11-22-11 04:11 #
Face23785 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
vdgg
Moderator


Posts: 872
Registered: 08-07
I guess it depends on how you play...

The outside area filled with lost souls is connected with the playing area - there are many windows. Once the lost souls see you (they are marked "deaf"), they are awakened and start floating towards the player (some of them are stopped by teleporting linedefs which move them backwards and stay by the "mountain" for a long time. However, because there are more lost souls than teleporter destinations, most of them ignore these teleporting linedefs). Then they join the action using one of many windows. Unless I missed something, the only way they can *teleport* into the playing area is using one of the linedefs surrounding a mancubus (2009-2012).

A lot can be observed by recording a demo and playing it back afterwards (prboom-plus), and either use the automap, press IDDT IDDT to trace the movement of the monsters or switch to camera mode and take a look e.g. at the mountain. Some of the lost souls should stay there "trapped" forever.
Old Post 11-22-11 06:51 #
vdgg is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Xeriphas1994
Junior Member


Posts: 165
Registered: 06-07
vdgg said:
Some of the lost souls should stay there "trapped" forever.

They should, but because of the noclip bug, eventually they emerge.  This is really obvious if you stand around on the exit platform for 20-30 minutes until one jumps across and hits you.
Old Post 11-24-11 20:37 #
Xeriphas1994 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7040
Registered: 07-07
Face23785 said:
That's an interesting nuance to it I guess.


It means for example that you can put 30 lost souls somewhere late in the map, then put a few pain elementals at the start. Player rushes to kill them before they can create a horde of pesky skulls... and eventually notice that the monsters are entirely harmless and useless, so he should have concentrated on some other threat instead.
Old Post 11-24-11 20:53 #
Gez is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
NaturalTvventy
Member


Posts: 595
Registered: 06-09
For my contribution to Caverns of Darkness, map 5, I remember trying to make an endless LS spawner. I used pain elementals behind one-way walls. I'm not sure what structure I designed to get the LS's to spawn, if it was teleporter lines only big enough for LSs, or if it was the area they teleported to being only big enough for LSs. I thought I'd gotten it to work, but looking at the final product it's just lost souls with no PEs. I didn't finish the level and had to pass it on to Chris for completion since I was shipping off to college. I don't remember if I made the change or not.
Old Post 11-25-11 04:30 #
NaturalTvventy is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
traversd
Member


Posts: 422
Registered: 01-09
Face23785 said:
Actually nobody answered my question about where they're coming from? I can see some teleporter action on one of the structures outside the map which I assume is supposed to be Mount Pain. But what triggers them to start teleporting in and by what mechanism?


Looking at it in the editor, with the exception of 3 LS in sector 41, all remaining LS in the map start in the large outdoor section - with most of them starting on the aforementioned lava staircase of teleporting fun.

I'm almost thinking the original intention of that structure was that the LS on it would not get off it, and simply teleport aimlessly around it. And since LS don't count to kill % that's a feasible outcome... a fancy, living decoration :o)
Old Post 11-25-11 10:01 #
traversd is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 22:33. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
 
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > TNT map 27 Mt Pain seemingly limitless lost souls?

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts 		HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Forums Directory