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Sodaholic
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I wonder what specific type of colorblindness Perersen had? Perhaps one could make a modified colormap to change the colors to how Sandy saw the maps. They might even look decent this way...

Old Post 11-22-11 17:45 #
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Cell
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hex11 said:
I'm getting the idea that at the very end, the id team was dis-functional.

Get it? The end... E3M8...


'Course it was! They had to warren it up! :D

Old Post 11-22-11 17:48 #
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phobosdeimos1
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Sodaholic said:
I wonder what specific type of colorblindness Perersen had? Perhaps one could make a modified colormap to change the colors to how Sandy saw the maps. They might even look decent this way...



SANDY'S MAPS DO LOOK DECENT ATRAHGRHTAF!!!!!!!!!

Old Post 11-22-11 17:55 #
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purist
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Cell said:
Looks like I've taken a Petersen exam as about... never mind, purist will inform me, if I give him the last chance to evaluate my "piece of artwork".


I'd describe your style as anti-Petersen. Common traits in Sandy's maps are set-pieces, novelty gameplay themes, abstract texturing and large open spaces with roaming monsters. Your maps tend to focus on pain-staking details, immaculate texturing, switch hunts and claustrophobic areas with monsters squeezed in tight.

Old Post 11-22-11 18:04 #
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esselfortium
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I've always kind of assumed the rumor about Sandy being colorblind was just from exaggerated claims about his maps looking weird. Does anyone have any idea what the original source is for the claim?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the garish color combinations (of which there aren't really very many, tbh) were intentionally designed to be weird and surprise the player. I mean... e2m6's color schemes look pretty normal until you trigger the fake exit and suddenly you're blinded with red and blue. I doubt that was a mistake.

Also, realize that the other id guys had to approve of what he was doing enough to release the game that way.

Old Post 11-22-11 18:45 #
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Super Jamie
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I like almost all of Sandy's maps and I'll defend him to the ends of the earth. Sure, his colors are a bit wacky and there are plenty of other stronger individual maps in the IWADs but those authors contributed far less of the mapping in Doom than Sandy did.

It's easy to bash Sandy's work but keep in mind he came into the team very late - imagine if someone said to you *right now* that you had to make 15-20 good playable maps before Christmas only using 1994-era tools, and handed you some ugly untextured Tom Hall "realistic" map templates to play with. That's pretty much what Sandy got lumped with.

Reading these articles (I've actually got the Strategy Guide) you can see he is a great insightful level designer, it's just his execution was likely stressed due to his short timeframe, inexperience with the engine and lack of good tools.

I loved the magazine writeup, thanks Ryback. In particular:



Note that the proximity of Barons o' Hell is almost always marked with a big sculpture of same... [tip is illustrated with a screenshot of the illuminated Baron wall just before the first Baron in E2M4]

I never noticed this!!!



In Wolfenstein it was a major pain in the ass to run along all the walls, bumping them for secret doors: Doom did away with that, and now logic rules.

This is so well said. Even if you're open an obvious mistexture there's still a sense of accomplishment in finding any secret.

Old Post 11-23-11 14:29 #
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DoomUK
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I can never understand the negativity towards Sandy Petersen's maps. It's like I've been playing a different game to everyone else all these years.

Old Post 11-23-11 15:55 #
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Gez
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DoomUK said:
I can never understand the negativity towards Sandy Petersen's maps.


Sandy Petersen and Tom Hall are not John Romero, therefore they suck.


Everything touched by the magic of John Romero is solid gold (e.g., Daikatana). The rest is by definition bad since it's not Romero-made.

Old Post 11-23-11 16:33 #
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Marcaek
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Slightly OT, for anyone who likes the E2 style but has some issues with the design, I recommend ddvu.wad. It's like a remix of the stock levels with the rough bits sanded off. I quite enjoyed it even considering stock E2 is probably my favorite episode.

Old Post 11-23-11 20:25 #
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Aldaraia
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I always liked Sandy's maps. They are abstract and hardly look like any place you've seen before. Maps like them are enjoyable to play after the usual map. Barrels O' Fun was gimmicky but the barrel run that scheming mancubus set up was.. well fun.

Old Post 11-24-11 02:18 #
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Super Jamie
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Gez said:
Sandy Petersen and Tom Hall are not John Romero, therefore they suck.

Everything touched by the magic of John Romero is solid gold (e.g., Daikatana). The rest is by definition bad since it's not Romero-made.


He certainly has made you his bitch :P

Old Post 11-24-11 02:33 #
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DoomUK
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Aldaraia said:
They are abstract and hardly look like any place you've seen before.

All the other maps being no different.

Old Post 11-24-11 08:48 #
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Hellbent
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esselfortium said:
Oh wow, that's a very interesting read, Vermil. Thanks for posting it; I wish I had seen it sooner!

Old Post 11-26-11 03:36 #
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Belial
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6. Don't run out of ammo
It's more fun to go down shooting than punching. If you want to make the level tougher, add more or meaner monsters - don't take away ammunition. It's okay to make the player hunt for one particular type of ammo, as long as you have a place where he can get hold of it. But make sure you don't let him run dry. Also, be nice and generous with healing etc; make sure there's plenty of it scattered about.

I wish everyone followed this rule.

Old Post 11-26-11 15:49 #
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MajorRawne
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Belial said:

I wish everyone followed this rule.


My best mate could run out of ammo if he had unlimited shots. I've never seen someone uselessly loose so much lead. Then again this is in Modern Warfare 2. If he saw Doom, his brain would explode in outrage. he's a modern FPS sort of chap.

As for good old Sandy, the "There are reasons" finish sort of nullifies any "sarcastic" or "jocular" feel to his last paragraph.

Old Post 11-26-11 22:43 #
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Marcaek
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MajorRawne said:
As for good old Sandy, the "There are reasons" finish sort of nullifies any "sarcastic" or "jocular" feel to his last paragraph.


Not necessarily. Perhaps he's hinting at insider knowledge.

Old Post 11-26-11 22:46 #
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D_GARG
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nice infos :)

Old Post 11-26-11 23:36 #
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chubz
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Vermil said:
Seeing as I believe you've asked about me scanning this before...

I've made some terrible quality scans (but it's only text, so I don't think the image quality is an issue) of an article from the Doom official strategy guide, written by Sandy about some of his map design principles.

http://imageshack.us/g/526/sandy4.jpg/

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6808/sandy4.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9762/sandy1.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5886/sandy2.jpg
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9730/sandy3p.jpg

Note that the images go 4,1,2,3 :p



I just gained a new-found respect for Sandy Peterson. That's some really fascinating stuff. When you play through his levels after reading those pages look at them from his own perspectives, they really start to make more sense and you can better grasp where he was going with them and what type of experience he intended the player to have. This was a superb read. Thanks so much for sharing! I really wish there was more content like this and more interviews with oldschool level designers so that I could hear about their own philosophies and rules they followed. If anyone knows of any other great sources of information like this, please let me know. I would greatly appreciate it!

Old Post 11-27-11 00:15 #
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Super Jamie
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chubz said:
If anyone knows of any other great sources of information like this, please let me know. I would greatly appreciate it!

You've read Masters of Doom, right?

Old Post 11-27-11 02:49 #
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chubz
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Super Jamie said:

You've read Masters of Doom, right?



Yes, and it was incredibly good!

Old Post 11-27-11 04:25 #
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Sergeant_Mark_IV
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He had some illegal substances running in his blood while making his maps.

Old Post 12-09-11 21:17 #
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DuckReconMajor
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The Book of Mormon is actually a Doom level making guide.

Old Post 12-11-11 03:02 #
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esselfortium
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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:
He had some illegal substances running in his blood while making his maps.

Speed?

Old Post 12-11-11 03:22 #
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