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Platinum Shell
Junior Member

Posts: 187
Registered: 08-11

Honestly, how did he? Is he such a badass that he can use the power of insta-credits to prevent his death and start The Shores of Hell? Or did he find a BFG somewhere in the darkness?

Or is there really no explanation?

What is your take on this?

11-28-11 05:47 #

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Mr. Chris
The term is "prehensile"

Posts: 3663
Registered: 07-02

Maybe it was just a portal with apparitions reaching from the sides grabbing or trying to grab him during that period of time taking the trip to Deimos that cause him to black out or go unconscious, losing everything but the clothes on his back and his pistol?

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Last edited by Mr. Chris on 11-28-11 at 05:56

11-28-11 05:50 #

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Mithran Denizen
Senior Member

Posts: 1093
Registered: 05-10

He didn't survive. The demons killed him while you were reading the ending text, and that's why you pistol start Deimos Anomaly.

11-28-11 05:58 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

Posts: 5700
Registered: 01-08

Platinum Shell said:
Honestly, how did he?

He didn't, Doomguy is a renegade zombie from E2M1 onwards.

11-28-11 06:05 #

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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 5765
Registered: 08-04

Platinum Shell said:
Honestly, how did he? Is he such a badass that he can use the power of insta-credits to prevent his death and start The Shores of Hell? Or did he find a BFG somewhere in the darkness?

Or is there really no explanation?

What is your take on this?

Romero said on his forum some time ago that the original intention was the player dies at the end of episode 1 and is transported to hell. Remember, the whole chunk of land that the Deimos base is built on his hovering over hell.

11-28-11 06:22 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 6845
Registered: 06-06

I don't know why so many people (including John Romero) take the episode ending literally. Wasn't E1M8 designed by Sandy Petersen on a skeleton by Tom Hall? I don't like the "dying" theory, because anywhere else that you suffer the same, you stay dead.

11-28-11 06:30 #

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Grazza
Super Moderator

Posts: 11450
Registered: 07-02

They must have decided that Buddy Ghhrtsdacote (Gets His Health Reduced To Single Digits At Conclusion Of The Episode) was a catchier name.

11-28-11 06:33 #

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Mr. T
Senior Member

Posts: 1270
Registered: 12-03

Doomguy gets OWNED (it is very easy to die here BTW, shoot a rocket) and wakes up... in Hell!

11-28-11 06:41 #

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xvertigox
Member

Posts: 262
Registered: 05-09

Technician said:
Romero said on his forum some time ago that the original intention was the player dies at the end of episode 1 and is transported to hell. Remember, the whole chunk of land that the Deimos base is built on his hovering over hell.

That's what I've always assumed, it seems to be pretty obvious. Die and end up in hell.

11-28-11 07:01 #

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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 5765
Registered: 08-04

printz said:
I don't know why so many people (including John Romero) take the episode ending literally. Wasn't E1M8 designed by Sandy Petersen on a skeleton by Tom Hall?

How the hell would that effect anything?

I don't like the "dying" theory, because anywhere else that you suffer the same, you stay dead.

What game have you been playing? Whenever Doom guy dies, he ends up back at the start of the map.

11-28-11 07:07 #

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Mr. T
Senior Member

Posts: 1270
Registered: 12-03

Well if you are in hell in E2, then technically you are dead. Just throwing that out there.

11-28-11 07:19 #

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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.

Posts: 5063
Registered: 08-07

I always imagined that being the teleport in which the monsters that arrived on Deimos were able to access Phobos. The teleport is so bogged down with interference from Hell's possession that the player suffers nightmarish visions and trauma as he relocates at Deimos Anomaly.

11-28-11 07:20 #

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sparerib1968
Junior Member

Posts: 162
Registered: 05-06

It has been my understanding that Doomguy dies. But he is such a badass that Hell can't keep him down. He fights his way out of Hell to go kick the Mastemind's ass at the end.

At the beginning of Doom 2 he returns home only to find his precious pet has been horribly mutilated. With nothing left to live for, he goes on to hand the demonic invaders their asses and kill the spawner.

Story is pretty sparse in game, intentionally so, and players fill in the gaps with their own imaginings. I frequently wish for a little more story, but that's just me. I tend to like story based games, like Alone in the Dark for example.

11-28-11 07:29 #

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Grazza
Super Moderator

Posts: 11450
Registered: 07-02

Mr. T said:
it is very easy to die here BTW, shoot a rocket

If you mean in the sector type at the end of E1M8, then no, that doesn't kill you. You can't die in this sector type. If you arrive dead in this sector type, you don't exit. If you telefrag a voodoo doll in this sector type, you exit with 1% health. These are among the best-known "little-known" Doom facts.

You can set up situations where you become a zombie in this sector type, using voodoo dolls.

From a storyline viewpoint, "you die and enter hell" is reasonable enough, but that isn't the way the game engine handles it.

11-28-11 07:43 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 6845
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Technician said:

What game have you been playing? Whenever Doom guy dies, he ends up back at the start of the map.

No he doesn't. He's dead. You can't even consider it a victory in Doom 1 if you die with the boss, except in that supposed "death" in E1M8. It's just the game having no other choice but to reload the level so you can try again. Otherwise it wouldn't be such a good game.

If you died in Doom 2, would you teleport to hell? No. Not even if it means being surrounded by thousands of Cyberdemons and having no chance. The way there in that game is actually a portal, too. Now someone will come up with the theory that Doom 2 is hell on Earth... THEN AGAIN, what about the Phobos bases pre-Anomaly, or Io base in The-New-Technology IWAD?

11-28-11 08:18 #

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Maes
I like big butts!

Posts: 8661
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Technically he doesn't die: he's stepping on a damaging exit floor which ends the level after he hits 10 HP or less. So the question is more akin to what the exit switch at the end of a level does.

I like to think that yeah, he does take a beating but he gets out of harm's way thanks to whatever magic/witchery makes regular exits work.

OTOH, I wonder if it would be possible to subvert the exit floor if you are damaged below 1 HP before you touch it (e.g. in flight) or before it activates.

Also, dying at the same time with the Cyberdemon or the Spider Mastermind at the end of the respective episodes does negate you victory.

Last edited by Maes on 11-28-11 at 08:38

11-28-11 08:31 #

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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03

You people have too much time if you need to think about this...

There is no real-world logic in Doom so there's no reason to rationalize the 'story'.

11-28-11 09:48 #

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MajorRawne
Member

Posts: 446
Registered: 04-10

I'm not sure how far it is possible to get caught up in the "story" of Doom, but it seems quite obvious that the Doom Marine dies and gets transported to Hell, and since he is not corrupted by Hell, he is able to fight his way out. In fact IIRC it actually states that Hell lets you go because it can't beat you or contain you.

11-28-11 11:09 #

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Vermil
Senior Member

Posts: 1223
Registered: 03-04

While the bad guy descriptions and the like in the manual state the enemy are Demons from Hell.

The actual story and splash screens are told more from Doom Guy's perspective; he is sent to Mars with his fellow soldiers to find out why communications are down and ends up battling an 'unknown non-human force'. He eventually discovers they are Demons from Hell.

11-28-11 12:14 #

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ASD
Green Marine

Posts: 32
Registered: 03-09

''Knee-Deep in the Death''
Doomguy tried to survive and go home but got killed in E1M8 and got stuck to Shores of Hell. He then escaped from Hell at the end of E3.
That's my point of view.

11-28-11 12:21 #

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_bruce_
Forum Regular

Posts: 799
Registered: 11-07

Maes said:
Technically he doesn't die: he's stepping on a damaging exit floor which ends the level after he hits 10 HP or less. So the question is more akin to what the exit switch at the end of a level does.

I like to think that yeah, he does take a beating but he gets out of harm's way thanks to whatever magic/witchery makes regular exits work.

OTOH, I wonder if it would be possible to subvert the exit floor if you are damaged below 1 HP before you touch it (e.g. in flight) or before it activates.

Also, dying at the same time with the Cyberdemon or the Spider Mastermind at the end of the respective episodes does negate you victory.

I'm pretty sure these petty thoughts crossed his mind when he was turned into ground beef by an avalanche of lead.

11-28-11 12:39 #

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Quasar
Moderator

Posts: 4615
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I am still of the opinion that the "damage" you are suffering while in the dark room in E1M8 is just the psychological effect of traveling through the rift into Hell. Demons passing by on their way to the real world through the same portal are taking a swipe at your consciousness.

Try not to forget that the entire point of the Phobos Anomaly is that it's a dimensional gateway connected to the same rift on Deimos. I don't know how the demons got Deimos into Hell, that part always seemed like a gigantic and unnecessary plothole to me (Hell is passed through when traveling via the slipgate technology and that's how the demons escaped into the "real" world in the first place).

11-28-11 13:33 #

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Jimi
Member

Posts: 600
Registered: 06-04

Full denial. It never happened. What ambush? There was no ambush.

11-28-11 13:34 #

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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.

Posts: 5063
Registered: 08-07

Graf Zahl said:
You people have too much time if you need to think about this...

There is no real-world logic in Doom so there's no reason to rationalize the 'story'.

The reason is to excercise your imagination. If you interpret doom maps as a bundle of code and vertices, and nodes and only have the ability to recognize efficiency and attention to detail, then it's safe to say that you're very unlikely to create anything worth playing.

11-29-11 07:14 #

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esselfortium
Cumulonimbus Antagonistic Posting

Posts: 5268
Registered: 01-02

Quasar said:
I am still of the opinion that the "damage" you are suffering while in the dark room in E1M8 is just the psychological effect of traveling through the rift into Hell. Demons passing by on their way to the real world through the same portal are taking a swipe at your consciousness.

This makes me think of the phenomenon in Grazza's trick run demo of some pwad map where he gets attacked by seemingly every monster at once as he's wrapping from one end of the void to another. Though that was actually trippier than the end of e1m8, heh. :P

11-29-11 08:29 #

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Mogul
Senior Member

Posts: 1578
Registered: 01-01

Romero said you die at the end of KDitD. It's pretty clear after you teleport to the room that you die. How is this not patently clear?

11-29-11 08:30 #

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Grazza
Super Moderator

Posts: 11450
Registered: 07-02

Mogul said:
How is this not patently clear?

Because your health stays positive. That could easily give the impression that you are alive.

esselfortium said:
This makes me think of the phenomenon in Grazza's trick run demo of some pwad map where he gets attacked by seemingly every monster at once as he's wrapping from one end of the void to another. Though that was actually trippier than the end of e1m8, heh. :P

That would be this one. Actually, it is just a few monsters that wake up and attack me - you can see which ones by watching in the automap with IDDT-IDDT. They are scattered around the map, and I'm not sure what the logic is (well, I imagine that their locations are somehow linked with the coordinates where I wrapped around, but beyond that it is puzzling). I think there's a caco, a former human, an arachnotron and a lost soul (which charges into a demon and gets killed by it). I presume it is the caco's telebite that harms me, as the others don't have a melee attack. You could get further info by turning on god mode and running along the join in the void and seeing what wakes up at each point.

11-29-11 09:33 #

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