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Rayzik
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The thing with a videogame is that it's basically a one-time buy. Food products are always something you'd buy more of because you'll always need more of them. Id still charges for new copies/downloads of Doom because they still need revenue to keep their company going and keeping Doom 4 in production, people paid, marketing, etc.

Besides that, there so many ways to get your hands on the game nowadays that I don't see why you're complaining about paying a small fee for it.
Old Post 01-11-12 23:01 #
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GoatLord
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The one-time-buy comment is very true. Think about it: Even if you did by Doom 2 for 20 bucks, you'd be playing it for hundreds if not thousands of hours because of the endless sea of mods out there. If you bough it say, 10 years ago, you've basically paid 2 bucks a year for an incredible amount of replay value.
Old Post 01-11-12 23:48 #
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Marnetmar
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I'm willing to bet that their post-wolf games still make a pretty good amount of cash. Considering that Rage was pretty much a flop, Doom 3 and older games plus engine licensing are probably where all the revenue is coming from.

Last edited by Marnetmar on 01-12-12 at 00:02
Old Post 01-11-12 23:56 #
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Csonicgo
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Porsche Monty said:
And I've had about enough of threads like this. Why on God's green earth would you want Doom to be released for free? don't you own it already? can it not be bought on eBay like for $1? why is it that all of a sudden everything of certain age has to be "free" otherwise the copyright holders are badmouthed and demonized?

What a load of thoughtless, pathetic, socialist garbage.


Better let 3DRealms know of their thoughtless, pathetic, socialist garbage, since they did just that.
Old Post 01-11-12 23:58 #
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DuckReconMajor
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GoatLord said:
I thought to myself, "Pfft, the game is so close to free, why be so picky?" So I went to id Software's official store and was a little shocked to see that Ultimate Doom, Doom II and Final Doom were all $20 each, which is barely any cheaper than it would have been 15 years ago. Contrarily, on Steam, you can purchase Ultimate Doom, Final Doom, Doom II, Doom 3, Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil and Master Levels for Doom II for under $40. Not bad! But it is a bit absurd that id is charging $60 for half of the titles in the Steam bundle.
Yeah. After months of playing XBLA Doom, which cost me $5, I go to see that PC Doom on the id site is 4 times the price. Well, I figured the PC version would be cheaper, but hey it's worth it. Over time I ended up spending $100 on Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, Heretic, and Hexen (the last two we already had but were long lost). Then later I see all these games on steam for 1/2 to 1/3 of the price.

The Hexen wad wasn't even version 1.1, so I spent months trying to figure out why Chocolate Hexen crashed on loading demos and respawning as Mage.

But hey I guess this makes Coopersville happy.
Old Post 01-12-12 00:26 #
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Xaser
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Posts: 1629
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Vordakk said:
"Perhaps I have a poor understanding of how fast food franchises work, but does it seem a little greedy to anyone else that a company as successful and longstanding as McDonald's still charge for a 63-year-old burger?"

This sentence made me laugh much, much harder than it should have. The thought of a "63-year-old burger" in particular is rather terrifying. IN a hilarious way.

But no, the analogies don't hold, for reasons that should be obvious. If we can just swap names of things without considering their context, then refuting arguments is a lot easier than I thought. :P
Old Post 01-12-12 00:51 #
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DuckReconMajor
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YOU WOULDN'T
STEAL A HAMBURGER
Old Post 01-12-12 01:06 #
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Technician
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Csonicgo said:
Better let 3DRealms know of their thoughtless, pathetic, socialist garbage, since they did just that.
Not to mention Rockstar releasing GTA1 & 2 for free. I'm eternally grateful for that.
Old Post 01-12-12 01:14 #
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CODOR
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Technician said:
Not to mention Rockstar releasing GTA1 & 2 for free.
The guys who did Star Con II did this, releasing the source under the GPL and the game data under a CC license. But the rights to the name ended up with Atari so they had to change it to "The Ur-Quan Masters".

Isn't Marathon free-to-download now, too?
Old Post 01-12-12 02:37 #
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chungy
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Rockstar releasing GTA 1/2 for free is more relevant to the point of the thread. Bethesda making the first two Elder Scrolls games freeware is another one... or the first Command & Conquer being freeware. There is a tidy list of games gone freeware, but it's not many.

The 3D Realms example really just concerns some obscure games not many people ever cared about in the first place, whereas Grand Theft Auto, Elder Scrolls, and C&C were all huge hits (and to the point of the thread, so was Doom). The only way 3D Realms would possibly be able to make a similar splash is if they made Duke Nukem 3D and/or Rise of the Triad freeware (most other "Apogee" or "3D Realms" games people are fond of weren't actually developed by them).
Old Post 01-12-12 02:38 #
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Porsche Monty
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Csonicgo said:


Better let 3DRealms know of their thoughtless, pathetic, socialist garbage, since they did just that.


It's only thoughtless, pathetic, socialist garbage when you're talking SOMEONE ELSE's stuff. They can do whatever they please with what they hold copyrights to. Sell it for a million bucks, put it on the public domain, destroy all the backup copies, none of our business.

And they released like all the crap with less than unlikely commercial value, not the Duke3D+ titles, essentially no different to ID's seemingly profitable adhesion to Doom.
Old Post 01-12-12 05:36 #
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hex11
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Basically you consider the public domain to be pathetic socialist stuff... Which is retarded because PD is the only reason copyrights exist in the first place. You cannot have one without the other.
Old Post 01-12-12 06:37 #
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Belial
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Porsche Monty said:
destroy all the backup copies ... none of our business

So destroying parts of our cultural heritage should be none of our business just because they were made to profit a private company?

I'll stick to my socialist garbage.
Old Post 01-12-12 06:39 #
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Porsche Monty
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hex11 said:
Basically you consider the public domain to be pathetic socialist stuff... Which is retarded because PD is the only reason copyrights exist in the first place. You cannot have one without the other.


If you had actually read what I posted, you'd have noticed that I don't consider it my business if they choose to put their stuff on the public domain. The key to understanding what would have been perfectly evident to intelligent people lies on "if they choose to", because forcing or being an arse to people who don't choose to release their stuff for free is in fact, socialist garbage, a really bad attitude.
Old Post 01-12-12 06:48 #
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Csonicgo
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Porsche Monty said:


It's only thoughtless, pathetic, socialist garbage when you're talking SOMEONE ELSE's stuff. They can do whatever they please with what they hold copyrights to. Sell it for a million bucks, put it on the public domain, destroy all the backup copies, none of our business.

And they released like all the crap with less than unlikely commercial value, not the Duke3D+ titles, essentially no different to ID's seemingly profitable adhesion to Doom.


Because it has no commercial value does not mean it has ZERO VALUE. Good lord.

Porsche Monty said:


If you had actually read what I posted, you'd have noticed that I don't consider it my business if they choose to put their stuff on the public domain. The key to understanding what would have been perfectly evident to intelligent people lies on "if they choose to", because forcing or being an arse to people who don't choose to release their stuff for free is in fact, socialist garbage, a really bad attitude.


What the hell is "socialist garbage"? I can't seem to pinpoint where you stand on this. please hand in a 200 word essay, typed, double spaced. Maybe then I'll care.

Maybe you should stop insulting people's ideologies from nowhere, insulting posters around here. Maybe you should try that. Until then, I'm not listening to any more garbage out of anyone's mouth- er, fingers. Either way.

I mean, we already have AndrewB for our resident asshole. We don't need another.
Old Post 01-12-12 06:49 #
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Porsche Monty
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Belial said:

So destroying parts of our cultural heritage should be none of our business just because they were made to profit a private company?

I'll stick to my socialist garbage.


Indeed. Their backups, not ours. Not that it would make a difference given that there may be thousands of copies out there, but you have to understand that the rights to third party products begin and end with the license.
Old Post 01-12-12 07:02 #
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Porsche Monty
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Csonicgo said:


Because it has no commercial value does not mean it has ZERO VALUE. Good lord.


And "less than unlikely" doesn't strictly mean zero value either, whatever you're aiming at with this?

Maybe you should stop insulting people's ideologies from nowhere, insulting posters around here.


Anyone who supports socialism is a piece of shit in my book and I could care less if they're offended. I'm offended when socialist garbage like this comes up and nobody gives a rat's arse.

Now you have me were you wanted, time to alert the mods.
Old Post 01-12-12 07:09 #
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hex11
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Do you really believe that the works will actually enter PD 95+ years after the death of the original author? Actually that number may need to be increased some, as it always invevitably does (thanks to Mr. Mouse). But regardless of the exact timeframe, who is going to take it upon themselves to preserve the works for that long? I fully expect that many things will fall completely into oblivion, probably not long after the death of its contemporary generations (those folks who were alive when it was most popular and relevant).

It's clear to me at least that the social contract upon which copyright law was originally founded has been thrown out the window, very much like the US Constitution. They exist now only as a grotesque farce.
Old Post 01-12-12 07:26 #
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Technician
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Porsche Monty said:
Indeed. Their backups, not ours. Not that it would make a difference given that there may be thousands of copies out there, but you have to understand that the rights to third party products begin and end with the license.
Do you work for the BBC? I know of a popular sci-fi show that would like a word with you.

Porsche Monty said:
Anyone who supports socialism is a piece of shit in my book and I could care less if they're offended. I'm offended when socialist garbage like this comes up and nobody gives a rat's arse.

Now you have me were you wanted, time to alert the mods.
Anyone who make's light of stereotyping should be considered a piece of shit, be political or cultural. C'mon, I'm the one with the commie avatar, dig in. But I'd take your narrow-minded insults more seriously if your whole monicker wasn't a lame nigger joke. Of course, I'm not really a commie, just a liberal. Oh wait, same thing.

I can't even comprehend why you are so pissed off in this thread.

Last edited by Technician on 01-12-12 at 07:41
Old Post 01-12-12 07:30 #
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Porsche Monty
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I've stated this before, but I believe that copyrights and patents should cost nothing and last forever, if the owner feels like it.

Releasing anything for free under certain license or straight into public domain, that should be the choice of whoever owns the rights. Government cannot and should not interfere, unless the copyrights/licenses are being violated; they're supposed to enforce them. If a company decides nothing's becoming free, so be it.

Anyways, I'm very grateful for the ENORMOUS value ID added to my purchases by releasing source codes. We should appreciate what we already have.
Old Post 01-12-12 07:44 #
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Porsche Monty
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Technician said:
Do you work for the BBC? I know of a popular sci-fi show that would like a word with you.


I already have Misfits of Science on DVD. The rest of the sci-fi world can go to hell ;)
Old Post 01-12-12 07:49 #
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hex11
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So you want the government (i.e. the people) to protect and defend these copyrights and patents for free, for nothing, and indefinitely at that. And you don't see how this belief of yours is equally as one-sided and unsustainable in the long run as that of the stereotypical socialist you condemn?
Old Post 01-12-12 08:19 #
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Porsche Monty
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hex11 said:
So you want the government (i.e. the people) to protect and defend these copyrights and patents for free, for nothing, and indefinitely at that. And you don't see how this belief of yours is equally as one-sided and unsustainable in the long run as that of the stereotypical socialist you condemn?


You're all mixed up here. My tax money is already paying the government (more like regime here) to protect copyrights, and that's not the issue whatsoever.

What I specifically mean is, if you want to get a copyright/patent for something you created, the government shouldn't charge you for that, so in case you're broke, you can still do it and hopefully go rags to riches.
Old Post 01-12-12 08:32 #
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Bloodshedder
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Thread closed because someone is going to end up putting me in a position where I have to defend Porsche Monty and I really don't want to have to do that.
Old Post 01-12-12 08:41 #
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