Reaper Grimm
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Doom Wiki Google rank issues
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »  
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:15. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Janizdreg
Member


Posts: 343
Registered: 07-02


As most of you probably know at this point, last year the Doom Wiki migrated off Wikia to independent and ad-free hosting provided by manc. The migration was a long and demanding process, but the new wiki has now been up and running well for quite a while.

One would imagine that getting rid of the initial server hickup issues, updating major Doom information and community sites (including Doomworld, ZDoom wiki and Wikipedia) to point to the new wiki and all the other related work done would've improved the site's Google rank a plenty. But apparently it has not, and the rank has instead dropped.

Something needs to be done about this. So please post your thoughts on what could be causing this, and feel free to suggest ideas for possible methods of improving the situation.

Old Post 01-23-12 01:16 #
Janizdreg is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Master Bigode
Warming Up


Posts: 13
Registered: 09-11


Wikia is hard to deal with because they use all sorts of fancy SEO tricks to stay at the top of search results. It may take a while for them to get out of the top even if the entire community updates their links to point to the new wiki.

__________________
Touhou Wiki

Last edited by Master Bigode on 01-23-12 at 02:07

Old Post 01-23-12 01:56 #
Master Bigode is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
TomoAlien
Member


Posts: 320
Registered: 06-08


Isn't it possible to add a special autoredirect thingy to the Wiki on the Wikia?

You should also add a big announcement box on top of the Wikia version which would say that the wiki has moved.

Old Post 01-23-12 08:04 #
TomoAlien is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
WildWeasel
Resident Castlevania Super-Fanboy


Posts: 2771
Registered: 07-03



TomoAlien said:
Isn't it possible to add a special autoredirect thingy to the Wiki on the Wikia?

You should also add a big announcement box on top of the Wikia version which would say that the wiki has moved.


Wikia's admins would probably remove it.

Old Post 01-23-12 08:07 #
WildWeasel is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 8837
Registered: 06-06


Hahahahaha I guess Doom just isn't such a popular game for its true wiki page to come on top ^_^

Old Post 01-23-12 09:20 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 11075
Registered: 07-07


There are a few links to the wikia site on the Japanese wiki, for example here. Anyone who understands Japanese volunteers to edit them?

Old Post 01-23-12 09:38 #
Gez is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 8837
Registered: 06-06


I tried editing, but even clicking preview, I get a a laconic server error on white screen:


エラー: このwikiでは逆引きできないホストからの投稿を禁止設定となっております。


Google translated it as:

ERROR: We set and the host can not ban a reverse in this wiki.

Old Post 01-23-12 10:19 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Mr. T
Senior Member


Posts: 1486
Registered: 12-03


I think that wiki is set to only allow editing by certain IPs. I could send whoever runs it an email I guess.

Last edited by Mr. T on 01-23-12 at 13:14

Old Post 01-23-12 13:09 #
Mr. T is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 11075
Registered: 07-07


Nuxius has a lengthy explanation and a couple of solutions. Unfortunately, the first (and likely most urgent) of these two can only be done by the site owners:

First, let's start with the easier to solve problem. This has to do with how Quasar has the various different domain names set up. Unfortunately, instead of just forwarding doomwiki.net and doomwiki.info to doomwiki.org (which is the proper way to handle multiple domains for one website) he mapped them all directly to the website. So you can use this website from any of those 3 domains, complete with 3 different logged in accounts if you wanted, because as far as anything outside of the server (ie your browser) is concerned, it is 3 different websites. And this includes Google. However, they're 3 "different" websites with the exact same content (obviously, since it's the same pages on the same server). In other words, duplicates, and of course as we have seen previously, Google has a method of removing duplicates from its results.

Another coincidence of this is that it temporarily spreads results across all three domains, so some will be from the .org one, while others will be from the .net or .info ones. It basically makes this wiki competition with itself.

And this leads us to another, in this case particularly damning, coincidence, in that having multiple domains mapped to one website is something unscrupulous websites used to do to grab more visitors (ie create one crappy scam website, then get a bunch of different domains with celebrities names in them and map them to that one website, that way you show up in numerous search results and get more visitors). I say "used to" because Google caught wind of this and now has it set up to actively punish websites that do this in their listings. So over time, more and more links to this wiki will disappear from the results as Google's automated processes weeds them out.


The other problem is simpler to solve, we just need to redesign the front page (something long overdue anyway). The current front page is inherited from a wikia-mandated change (this was the previous layout). And yeah, we could tart up the Wikia front page to make it wikiaer. It'd help us and the wikia staff would like it instead of considering it as sabotage.

Old Post 01-23-12 22:05 #
Gez is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Quasar
Moderator


Posts: 6012
Registered: 08-00


Except nobody has been linking to anything except doomwiki.org

I have not seen any links to doomwiki.net or doomwiki.info, and I would not encourage linking to them either for precisely those reasons. The domains were registered to keep Wikia from getting them.

Old Post 01-24-12 02:20 #
Quasar is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Mancubus II
Purple is not a breakfast color


Posts: 1940
Registered: 02-03


The auxillary domains are now 301 redirects. You'll notice if you attempt to go to one of them or a link containing one of them you will be redirected to the .org domain (you may have to clear your cache).

To be fair, that was my doing and not Quasar's. I had initially done that when we first bought the domains and we hadn't done anything with them since. I ultimately have control over them so I should take some blame.

Old Post 01-24-12 08:56 #
Mancubus II is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooMAD
Bitcoin IS a religion.


Posts: 1492
Registered: 07-02


Might be an idea to read up on this, since it's fairly new:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Panda
Could be one of the changes that's affecting the wiki's rank.

Old Post 01-24-12 16:21 #
DooMAD is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
reboot
Warming Up


Posts: 23
Registered: 01-12


Interesting, because searching for "doom wiki" on DuckDuckGo brings the new wiki on second place.

Old Post 01-24-12 20:16 #
reboot is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Quasar
Moderator


Posts: 6012
Registered: 08-00



DooMAD said:
Might be an idea to read up on this, since it's fairly new:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Panda
Could be one of the changes that's affecting the wiki's rank.


Google has always screwed the non-commercial sites in favor of the big money. They haven't even bothered to respider doomwiki.org since fucking May. There is no excuse for that.

Old Post 01-24-12 23:51 #
Quasar is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
qoncept
Member


Posts: 434
Registered: 12-11



reboot said:
Interesting, because searching for "doom wiki" on DuckDuckGo brings the new wiki on second place.

Unfortunately Google is virtually the only search engine. For example, the top 6 referrers to my site for the month (about 97% of all search traffic):

1. google / organic 17,984
2. (direct) / (none) 5,135
3. forums.nasioc.com / referral 1,205
4. romraider.com / referral 458
5. iwsti.com / referral 354
6. yahoo / organic 292

I really wish doomwiki.org would get bumped above wikia. As it is I find what I'm looking for then replace the domain name after clicking on the link. I guess I'd be doing my part more if I scrolled down to the doomwiki.org links.

Old Post 01-25-12 04:54 #
qoncept is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 8837
Registered: 06-06


What I really like about Wikia, and wish would become standard elsewhere, is the rich-text page editor.

Or I used to like. It doesn't seem to edit very complex pages (containing tables) in rich-text, without the need of visible mark-up, and that was my main issue.

Old Post 01-25-12 15:33 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooMAD
Bitcoin IS a religion.


Posts: 1492
Registered: 07-02


From the limited details online about how Panda affects rankings, it may be that a site's usage statistics play a factor. Seems somewhat self-reciprocating that a site with higher traffic is rewarded with a higher ranking, but that's what people are saying. I'm still no wiser as to how we would go about fixing that if it is true.

Old Post 01-27-12 17:04 #
DooMAD is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
qoncept
Member


Posts: 434
Registered: 12-11


I have a buddy doing SEO consulting on the side. I'll see what he has to say. But Google rankings boosts just take a long time.

Old Post 01-27-12 20:53 #
qoncept is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7724
Registered: 01-03


I have a suspicion that money is the key again.

Seeing how prominently featured the wikia link is at the top of the list I think it's quite obvious that some money flows to boost it.

Old Post 01-27-12 21:12 #
Graf Zahl is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
qoncept
Member


Posts: 434
Registered: 12-11


He said the biggest problem is the duplicate content. Google doesn't want to list the same thing twice.

I assume wikia isn't going to allow any "new home is doomwiki.org" links and obviously no redirects. Since its a wiki rollsbacks are map08 (see what I did there?)

He also said the only good news is Google will see the wikia site stagnate and start to prefer the updates on the new site.

Old Post 01-27-12 21:34 #
qoncept is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 11075
Registered: 07-07



qoncept said:
Since its a wiki rollsbacks are map08 (see what I did there?)


Don't you mean map07? :p

There's not much tricks and traps in rolling back revisions. It's something that's dead simple to do.

Old Post 01-27-12 21:48 #
Gez is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
qoncept
Member


Posts: 434
Registered: 12-11



Gez said:


Don't you mean map07? :p

There's not much tricks and traps in rolling back revisions. It's something that's dead simple to do.


Doh. Actually I meant map23.

Old Post 01-27-12 22:36 #
qoncept is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Quasar
Moderator


Posts: 6012
Registered: 08-00



qoncept said:
He said the biggest problem is the duplicate content. Google doesn't want to list the same thing twice.

I assume wikia isn't going to allow any "new home is doomwiki.org" links and obviously no redirects. Since its a wiki rollsbacks are map08 (see what I did there?)

He also said the only good news is Google will see the wikia site stagnate and start to prefer the updates on the new site.


Except it's not stagnant because there's a sea of anons still editing it. The quality of their edits is overall terrible, but since when is a search engine capable of distinguishing the quality of the material it is indexing?

Old Post 01-28-12 00:30 #
Quasar is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Technician
Still no custom title


Posts: 7911
Registered: 08-04


Question: Why are you keeping the old one, again?

Old Post 01-28-12 01:57 #
Technician is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 11075
Registered: 07-07


Answer: because we cannot close or delete it.

Old Post 01-28-12 02:40 #
Gez is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Technician
Still no custom title


Posts: 7911
Registered: 08-04



Gez said:
Answer: because we cannot close or delete it.
Ah, OK.

Old Post 01-28-12 03:38 #
Technician is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 8837
Registered: 06-06


I think a way of salvation is there being public knowledge that "Wikia sucks, people have made alternatives to it, look for them instead". Doomwiki.org is not the only example.

Old Post 01-28-12 08:47 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooMAD
Bitcoin IS a religion.


Posts: 1492
Registered: 07-02


I also read that less or no banner ads on the site can help as well. Perhaps in the long term, the changes will benefit us. For the moment we'll just have to put up with it and keep maintaining our one to a high standard.

Old Post 01-28-12 13:51 #
DooMAD is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Jodwin
Forum Staple


Posts: 3409
Registered: 02-05


Google does have certain metrics regarding the "usefulness" of results affecting how high the appear in the lists. They even have groups of people evaluating how good certain results are for particular searches.

The best way to get around it is to let the old wiki go down in flames of bad anon edits, get every site possible to refer to new wiki and just wait. Eventually the old wiki will be so bad that it'll lose its place and the new one will rise.

Old Post 01-28-12 14:46 #
Jodwin is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Glaice
formerly Mr. Chris


Posts: 4857
Registered: 07-02


What do we do to up the ranking in Google without resorting to sleazy tactics? I'm gonna link it on my Youtube page so that helps.

__________________
Chris's uploads - Link
Brutal Video Vault
Brutal Tumblr

Old Post 01-28-12 17:42 #
Glaice is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:15. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »  
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Doom Wiki Google rank issues

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.