Doom Comic
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > New Doom novels... your thoughts?
Pages (2): [1] 2 »  
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:25. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Hi, I recently emailed John Romero to ask for his thoughts about the possibility of writing new Doom novels, and he's sent me a contact address for someone I can submit my proposals to.

I am not quite at the stage to do this yet, in fact I wasn't expecting a response at all, although I will probably be ready to submit proposals for 2-3 novels by the end of next month.

I wanted to get an idea of people's thoughts about this, and to ask what people would want a Doom novel to be like. For example, should I focus on fear and loneliness (the mood from the PSX and 64 versions of Doom), or outright action and carnage like the PC version?

I notice that the film and some of the existing books ditch all the Hell stuff and bring in crap about aliens and gene therapy. Was there a particular reason for the removal of quasi-religious overtones, or did the writers just f**k up?

Finally, would very limited references to Quake 2 be welcomed: for example, the teleport technology being known as Slipgates, and someone casually name-dropping the Strogg?

I'd welcome any thoughts. Just didn't want to write some rubbish that goes off on a tangent and annoys all of Doomworld. (Yeah, unlike some of my posts, etc.)

Old Post 06-20-12 17:13 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


Posts: 2594
Registered: 07-02


I think Doomers are in sore need of some decent Doom novels. I believe there are some based off of Doom 3, so I can't speak for those. But the original four are embarrassingly stupid. The first two novels keep many of the ideas intact, but take a very juvenile, hokey approach that will disappoint anyone who is a fan of science fiction. So yes, I would love to see a new, more mature take on it.

The PSX and N64 games do indeed emphasize isolation and horror, but I see no reason why you can't mix it up with the visceral carnage implied by the fast pace of the PC versions. As for Quake references, I think most fans would agree that that is a totally separate world and any attempt to allude to it would feel forced.

The story behind Doom has always been very minimal, giving a potential writer a lot of opportunity to interpret what exactly the monsters are, where they came from, UAC's role in the invasion, etc. If I were to take a stab at it, I'd go the high concept route and probably have it somewhat resemble the way the Predators behave: highly advanced but ultimately tribal creatures determined to hunt humans for sport. In my vision these predatory creatures are never seen and the demons are simply chess pieces of their manufacturing.

Old Post 06-20-12 17:49 #
GoatLord is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11


Well, yes the story is barebones and I think it should stay that way since it's one of the characteristics of the game.It doesn't have to be overly deep(and shouldn't), just satisfying.

I agree with what GoatLord said, not only monsters could be given new interpretations(that make sense) but the social hierarchy of the demons could be explained as well. For instance, they could have a culture based on feudalism where the weaker demon is the slave of the stronger one. For instance: Imps could be the slaves of the Barons of Hell who take care of lowly tasks like torturing damned souls or breeding pinky Demons. Also, since Hell has a social structure so similar feudalism, you could hint that demons had contact with us hundreds of years before the events in doom. Perhaps an influential ruler sold his soul to gain insight from the demons in order to strengthen his rule and his descendants eventually become the CEOs of UAC? That could explain why their social structure is so similar to feudalism and where we got gothic architecture from.

To recap, I think a simple yet satisfying narative(that is 100% faithful to the games) would suffice because having a simple storyline has become a TRADITION within the franchise.

You could add depth by creating interesting sub-plots and by clever characterisation of the weapons, monsters, humorous references to the doomworld userbase and even hints to user-made wads (a small hint to Forced and Painful Chocolate shotgun would be awesome as well as a reference to Repercussions of Evil)

Last edited by DooM_RO on 06-20-12 at 19:26

Old Post 06-20-12 18:42 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Porsche Monty
Member


Posts: 454
Registered: 06-10


Doom novels my arse. You haven't even started it and I'm already bored.

__________________
Pirates are nothing but trash. Be a good citizen and support SOPA/PIPA.

Old Post 06-20-12 19:59 #
Porsche Monty is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
purist
Senior Member


Posts: 2037
Registered: 04-04


I wouldn't go too far into explaining the origins or motives of demons. I prefer to think of them as something you can't really understand or reason with. Just a relentless plague of all consuming evil.

In a book the atmosphere might work best focusing on isolation and a growing, forboding tension. The action parts should be graphic and brutal but a constant montage of violence would probably de-sensitise the reader and remove all dread.

Old Post 06-20-12 20:15 #
purist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Porsche, there's a blog thread for people who want to talk about their feelings.

EDIT: The following was written before I read Purist's post.

The Hierarchy of Hell

From the other posts here and through research I've been doing, it seems people are very keen to know the "pecking order" (hierarchy) of Hell. I was actually going to avoid this, since I then have to make judgements about why a Pain Elemental is worth more than a Cacodemon, an Arachnotron is a dumb guard dog etc, which people probably wouldn't accept.

If I did go ahead with this, by extension we might then start asking horrible questions like "Where do Imps live?", "What are demons doing when they aren't torturing sinners?", then the demons become more and more "humanised" and we get demon personalities who turn up every so often with their mad schemes only to escape justice at the last second. I wanted to avoid a "space opera" theme. Doom is not a "space opera," it's an all-action variant of survival horror.

As I see it, the demons of Hell are brutal monsters who are utterly obsessed with slaughter and violence. A Hell Baron would slay any Imp that got in its way without breaking stride; a Shotgunner stationed in a small room with a Hell Knight would find himself crushed to a pulp just for the sheer pleasure of squashing a weaker being. There would be infighting and gneral chaos. Look at the Hell Knight and the Hell Baron mod for Doom 3: would either of these creatures experience any emotions that a human would recognise, or follow a sense of "justice", however perverted?

I need to find a way to show the bestiality and utter inhumanity of the demons, but not to make them two-dimensional villains who offer nothing in the way of depth or personality.

This is why the Games Workshop (for example) doesn't accept fiction that is written from an alien point of view: aliens are not human, they do not possess human emotions or values, except by coincidence or through repeated interaction with humans. Therefore a novel that was successfully written from an alien's point of view would not really make much sense to a human reader and would offer little insight into its character.

So, people don't want to go for the Quake link then?

Old Post 06-20-12 20:28 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


The Weapons of Doom

One question I wanted to answer was "Why does the Doom Man use crappy 20th century weapons in a world of plasma guns and BFGs?"

My idea for a Q2 link came when I was thinking of the opening to my first novel. The Doom Marine would have a blaster as his side-arm, but it doesn't work when he first tries to use it.

In the backstory for PC Doom 2, the demons use some sort of force field technology. I had the idea that they are using something similar to "de-activate" high-tech human weaponry. The only weapons that work, at least initially, are old-school projectile weapons. This explains why a man would use a shotgun rather than some kind of suped-up particle gun. (We've got people living on distant planets and we're experimenting with teleporters, and we're still using gunpowder weapons?).

Another Q2 link would be demon technology - the force field generators are more alien than demonic in style, which was a vague reference to Strogg technology. (The Q2 stuff was more of an easter egg type thing.)

Knee Deep in the Dead

There would be a growing sense of brooding menace, like a storm gathering. I once watched a film called Bait about a man who was being unwittingly used by police to catch a crime kingpin. The film continually built up to some of the most exciting action sequences I've seen, then once the violence bubble had burst things settled down for a short while. Maybe this would be the way to go, as it's kind of what Purist suggested?

Possible Novel Titles

I'm toying with map names from the PSX (specifically, Redemption Denied) and D64 (eg The Bleeding).

Last edited by MajorRawne on 06-20-12 at 20:41

Old Post 06-20-12 20:34 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Captain Toenail
Member


Posts: 649
Registered: 05-08


Well, the Doom monsters are described as having certain personalities.

The Spider Mastermind (and probably its siblings the Arachnotrons) are stated as being the mastermind behind the demonic invasion, so I would imagine them to be full of devious and alien cunning.

The Barons of Hell and Hellknights could be described as being 'noble' and the rulers of Hell, but they also seem to be unintelligent beasts. Also I remember reading somewhere that the Cacodemons and Barons have a fierce rivalry or hate between each other.

The Archvile is suggested in an ironic fashion to be a misunderstood healer, though it comes off as very sinister with its black magic and stigmatic pose.

TL;DR I imagine the higher up monsters are intelligent, but to us they just resemble ravenous beasts.


You mentioned Games Workshop. A cool idea would be to describe Hell as an alternate dimension full of total chaos just as the warp is described in 40k fluff. When the denizens of the Hellish dimension 'mesh' with the real world they take on material forms that make sense to a human perspective, if that makes sense. Just make sure it is suitably demonic and foreboding, and quite metal too.

Also the slipgate suggestion makes sense, sort of. I don't see why the Quake/Quake2 and Doom universes could not be linked by dimensional portals. I'm pretty sure it is even suggested that Doom and Wolfenstein are the same universe, certainly Qauke 3's meagre backstory links all the universes together. Inevitably though it comes off as crossover fanwank. :/

Old Post 06-20-12 20:45 #
Captain Toenail is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11


I see, well I'm not quite sure what to say at the moment although I will give this matter some thought as it seems very interesting.

One thing you could definitely do is use the writing style of the victory texts or at the very least make the doomguy talk like that.

Old Post 06-20-12 20:46 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
pming
Junior Member


Posts: 112
Registered: 06-00


Hiya.

I could read a good DOOM novel or three, sure. The "one" I did read was...er...disappointing?

Anyway, my thoughts: Don't "explain" the demonic hierarchy...hint at it maybe, but that's about it. The way I've always seen the DOOM demonic pecking order is one of "how many souls have you sent to hell and how painful did you do it"? Basically, a demon gains 'prestige' via how often and how spectacularly painful it kills. At a certain 'soul/pain' quota it gets a new body (re: "tougher" demon). Humans would be vastly preferred, counting as 'bonus points', but other demons count too (hence, in-fighting). No demon really "orders others" around based on some social hierarchy...the demons that can kill you in one or two hits call the shots because if you don't do what they want...er...they kill you in one or two hits. Pretty good incentive, especially if when a demon is killed it has to start as a weaker one and 'work its way up' the meat-suit line (former commando, sergeant, chaingunner, pinky, imp, etc....).

I'd like to see something that focuses initially on gung-ho "kill'em all" attitude...which then goes horribly wrong...leading to a "WTF am I going to do?!?" moment...leading to a..."I gotta get AWAY!"...persisting until the futility of it all sets in and we move into the final..."I'm as good as dead, but I'll be damned if I ain't gonna take as many of those demonic sons-o'bitches down with me!". End, roll credits. That's how I first 'saw' DOOM. I was a marine, ready to kick ass...and I did for the first few levels of imps, demons, sergeants and commandos. Then I got paranoid about every little shadow, as I saw my ever dwindling resources dip lower and lower...just getting to the next 'level' was the goal. Then once I realized there's pretty much no help and no turning back, a determined resignation to just blast the shit outta anything that moved in hopes of getting to the 'end'. A DOOM novel should reflect that character journey.

If you want more sci-fi over DOOM-Carnage, then I'd get into the behind the scenes guys; from the chairman of the UAC board, to the head engineer of defensive equipment, to the doctors, down to the receptionist. This would take a LOT more work to make it interesting, but I always wondered about other bases, ships, towns/cities, etc. I'm sure there are TONS of stories about these guys that could be every bit as interesting as reading about some marine with a god-complex rampaging throughout two dimensions.

PS: Definitely leave out anything about demons being "bio-engineered" or other DNA crap like that; demons are demons from hell and they want to chew your face off and feast on your soul. Deal with it.

__________________
^_^

Paul L. Ming, a.k.a., The_Hierarch on some other boards.

Old Post 06-20-12 20:58 #
pming is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


DooM_RO, I could throw in a line from the Doom Guy which links to the chocolate shotgun, plus I could work in references to Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed, Requiem and Memento Mori, without getting tangled up in peoples' intellectual property (or as much IP as they can claim while working in someone else's sandbox).

So, how about the first novel simply being survival horror, with the second setting things on a wider canvas?

Should I attempt a reboot of the Doom Novel franchise and follow the basic storyline of the original games (including Final Doom which nobody has yet done), with known characters and events, or something set after the events of Doom and Doom 2 featuring a new cast on a new human colony?

EDIT: Posted at the same time as Pming, who answered some of my questions :)

Thanks gents, this is starting to take shape in my mind.

EDIT 2: When people inevitably request I post my work in this thread, be advised no publisher will touch something that is available for free online, no matter how limited its circulation, so I'll have to post other examples of my writing instead.

EDIT 3: Captain Toenail, sorry, I yet again missed your post due to posting at the same time! There is a lot of "fanwank" (cool word!) in Star Trek fiction. The "New Frontier" novels are supposed to take Trek in a dark direction, but some of them read like a who's who of Next Generation episodes. Stargate Atlantis gets bogged down with SG-1 references in its third season, which while admittedly epic, does make you pine to watch SG-1 at times.

I had the idea that the demons mean the same thing to different species:

* To humans, they are nightmarish creatures from our holy books. (There is deliberately no reference to Christianity here so all the other religions don't get left out, and the more passionate American Christians don't ban my English arse for being a "Satanist."

* To the Strogg, they take away the metal which the Strogg use to enhance their bodies, leaving only weak, helpless flesh to putrefy while it still lives. (Gives an extra dimension to a relatively two-dimensional alien race.)

I had a cool idea that in the second book, the Marine is trapped in Hell but manages to get a signal back to Earth ("humanity evacuates earth and escapes the nightmare" - taken from PSX Doom). When Earth Control advises him they are currently engaged against a race of cybernetic alien cannibals, he could say something like "Who are these Goddamn Strogg?"

Finally, what about bad language? Are people expecting "f-ing and blinding", or should I attempt to set this out without any real swear words (which I could definitely do).

Last edited by MajorRawne on 06-20-12 at 21:16

Old Post 06-20-12 21:03 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11



MajorRawne said:
DooM_RO, I could throw in a line from the Doom Guy which links to the chocolate shotgun, plus I could work in references to Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed, Requiem and Memento Mori, without getting tangled up in peoples' intellectual property (or as much IP as they can claim while working in someone else's sandbox).

So, how about the first novel simply being survival horror, with the second setting things on a wider canvas?

Should I attempt a reboot of the Doom Novel franchise and follow the basic storyline of the original games (including Final Doom which nobody has yet done), with known characters and events, or something set after the events of Doom and Doom 2 featuring a new cast on a new human colony?



I would make it a complete reboot of Doom 1 if I were you, I haven't read the first one but I've head it's shit. Also, do you think showing us your manuscript for crticism/additional insight would be cool?It could be a WAD in paper form!

Also, sorry for asking this again but what do you think about using the style from the victory screens when writing the book? If you think it's a bad idea them how about making the doomguy talk like that?

Ahead lies the military complex, now
swarming with diseased horrors hot to get
their teeth into you. With luck, the
complex still has some warlike ordnance
laying around.
You hear the grinding of heavy machinery
ahead. You sure hope they're not stamping
out new hellspawn, but you're ready to
ream out a whole herd if you have to.
They might be planning a blood feast, but
you feel about as mean as two thousand
maniacs packed into one mad killer.

You don't plan to go down easy.
The vista opening ahead looks real damn
familiar. Smells familiar, too -- like
fried excrement. You didn't like this
place before, and you sure as hell ain't
planning to like it now. The more you
brood on it, the madder you get.
Hefting your gun, an evil grin trickles
onto your face. Time to take some names.
Suddenly, all is silent, from one horizon
to the other. The agonizing echo of Hell
fades away, the nightmare sky turns to
blue, the heaps of monster corpses start
to evaporate along with the evil stench
that filled the air. Jeeze, maybe you've
done it. Have you really won?

I think this would be perfect, it sounds really cynical and fits the doomguy's personality really well.

Hmm, so you can't show us your manuscript, I was hoping this would be a megawad on paper :D .Perhaps you could do this unofficially?Not with me of course since I am a newbie but with someone known on this forum.

Old Post 06-20-12 21:10 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
chungy
Senior Member


Posts: 1833
Registered: 06-05


I think a Quake 1 tie-in can work rather easily, but tying in Quake 2 sounds like it'd be very difficult to do without seeming forced.

Old Post 06-20-12 21:12 #
chungy is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Gents, thanks, I updated my previous post.

EDIT: DooM_RO, this is something I wrote for one of my upcoming Doom maps, which basically does what you ask but in my natural writing style rather than in the style of Doom.

Doom's style is more cynical, more aggressive and more Americanised than my usual narrating voice, which is quiet, dark and brings out your emotions.

You find yourself being dragged back... back... into a past that you've spent your whole life running from. The echoing torment of lost love; the pain of a mis-spent youth; all the failures you can never change. It's all here, waiting for you.

Your mental discipline, provided courtesy of the United Earth Colonial Force through weeks of training and hypnosis, simply does not seem to help as you are dragged down into the icy waters of your mind.

You pick yourself up and draw your pistol as the man walks towards you... a grotesque distortion of a human being, leaking blood through his leering mouth. There is something wrong with his eyes.

Something terrible is going to happen.

You blow the man's head to pieces with a couple of well-placed shots. Whatever else is wrong, you've still got your skills. Hoots and howls echo along miles of corridor, through rooms that have sat, dark and brooding, for all these years, waiting for you to return; waiting for you to give meaning to their empty existence.

As you look around, you realise that you've been here before. Claustrophobia squeezes your heart. Blood doesn't seem to be reaching your brain. You grey out and feel dizzy before you realise you aren't dying. What's happening to you is mental, not physical.

You are remembering.

Bitterly, you reload your pistol, cursing all those times you said you wished you could change the past, to live it again knowing what you know now. Something out there in the darkness was listening to your wishes, and has decided to grant them.

You've been here before.

The place looks different somehow. Its sense of grim, hopeless menace has increased. The emotions infused in this place - given strength and substance by your own emotions - have gestated and finally matured, and now this place has brought you back, to show you what it has become. This place existed before you, yet it remembers nothing before the brutality you brought here all those years ago. It sees you almost as a child sees its parent, but there is no love here. Love is gone; love is dead. There is only malevolent pride. This place is going to crush you and rejoice in your death, even though your death will condemn it to an eternity of nothingness.

You are tied to this place by the memories you tried to suppress.

Go, now, into the rooms. Slaughter everything that moves. These are not people. These are not demons. They are fragments of memory from a time when you hated yourself. Every sound leaves echoes. Silence those echoes, and be complete.

Fight your growing horror. Hold on to who you are and there is a chance that you might make it - you just might!

Fight for your future, that you might be free at last.

Old Post 06-20-12 21:18 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11


I think a Quake tie-in could be a bad idea. A lot of things could go wrong.

Old Post 06-20-12 21:22 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Noted. I can implement the ideas previously mentioned without bringing Quake into it at all, so if the consensus is against Quake easter eggs, so be it. :)

Speaking of intellectual property (IP), what would be the legal or copyright implications if I did somehow work "Hell Revealed" into the books, even if I simply titled a chapter "Hell Revealed"?

Or - here's a cracking idea - how about I name each individual chapter of each book after a particularly evocative Doom map from the original maps and from user-made wads?

Examples might be

"...And Hell Followed"
"Against Thee Wickedly"
"Unholy Cathedral"

"Afterlife" (Hell Revealed)
"Cursed Kingdom" (Requiem)

Locations mentioned in the novel might be

"Command Control"
"Toxin Refinery" (the PSX music for this map is AMAZING)
"Alpha Labs" (I almost added this for a laugh but I can actually use it)
"Geryon Station" (from the FDoom map Geryon)
"Lunar Mining Project" and a related area known as "The Crater"
"Mount Erebus"

My brain is suffering from total lockdown now, I'm writing ideas on paper faster than I can process them. Anyone can feel free to submit awesome map names, I can't think of any more tonight!

Old Post 06-20-12 21:40 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11


Hmm, not quite sure what to say, the style is good but his monologue sounds more like Max Payne. From the victory texts, the Doomguy does not seem like someone who would meditate so deeply on his emotions and even if h does, he does not let them get to him(except hate and bloodlust). I am speaking about those texts again because they are the only insight on his personality.

That cynical, agressive and americanised style is what Doom is all about . I mean, the game is first and foremost SIMPLE and doesn't inspire a lot of emotions( although what it DOES inspire tends to be very strong - at least in my case) BUT it draws depth from other, less obvious sources like the layout of the levels, the lighting. You could do something similar by cleverly describing the surroundings.

Before you write a manuscript that you can't show us, perhaps you should write more paragraphs like that so we can give you criticism, insight?

EDIT: At the moment it seems you have too many ideas so be careful not to make a mish-mash of things. I suggest you give this some more thought.

One more thing, could we see some of your other stuff to see the quality of your prose? Have you ever published another book before?

Last edited by DooM_RO on 06-20-12 at 21:53

Old Post 06-20-12 21:41 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Hi mate, you're being extraordinarily helpful, I really appreciate this! :D

I can duplicate the Americanised tone of Doom, however I would like to get into the mindset of Romero at al when they were creating Doom which would allow me to develop the aggressive side of my writing. I want to be fully immersed in Doom's tone to deliver an authentic experience, I don't just want to copy Doom's style to sell a few books.

My online fiction is mostly 40K and a few prequel stories from my 20K series. All of it needs editing to bring it up to my current standard. I'm planning on getting my fiction together on a website of my own and I would like to revise the stories before I do so.

EDIT: I am not far from publishing a series of self-help books, but these are on the back burner for more urgent writing commitments.

If you want to read some of my stuff which was written a while back, try these:

The Last Day
Horus Heresy fiction about the Siege of Terra. Note that this was written after I read the first Heresy book and some of the characterisation is not consistent with the later Heresy books.
http://imperial-literature.net/?p=70

Anointed In Blood
Warhammer fiction inspired by the Doom map "Unholy Cathedral."
http://imperial-literature.net/?p=1114

Both stories could do with some extra words taken out and a bit of spit and polish, but hey ho.

Old Post 06-20-12 22:11 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Clonehunter
Forum Staple


Posts: 3653
Registered: 03-10


The Doom 3 novels (I've only read the first actually) are pretty decent. Well written imo. For the originals I only have the second book and haven't read it yet, but I've heard the stories. I think the Doom 3 novels though are probably good for a while.

What we need is a new Doom comic.

Old Post 06-20-12 22:29 #
Clonehunter is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Antroid
Senior Member


Posts: 1467
Registered: 09-07


I don't think there could feasibly be enough interesting story material for a whole novel from after the hell invasion. I kind of hate the idea of explaining anything about the demons, including motives and plans, so i don't want a story entirely about the struggle against demons and their wacky schemes. And i doubt it is possible to write engagingly about one marine's experience with fighting demons throughout various locations. It's like how nobody (normal) probably would make a 9-hour movie shot entirely out of a train window with nothing else going on, but staring into that window when you are travelling is awesome.
So i think that the best material for a good doom story might be during events that only lead to the full-scale invasion. My favourite logs in doom3 were about people being spooked by random mysterious happenings throughout the base, like creepy glitches or voices or shadows. You could play up the sense of approaching a wonderful technological breakthrough that would change the world as we know it, and then have the hopes shattered. My other favourite logs in doom3 were the videos about all the great possibilities and scientific achievements for the good of mankind. Watching those was kinda sad.
For a twist, you could reimagine how Earth was taken over and write about that. But that would require a takeover scenario different from "a gate opened and lots of demons came through killing everybody".
Also i don't like quake 2 so the strogg mentions make me cringe. :X

Old Post 06-21-12 05:33 #
Antroid is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11


I appreciate the fact that I am helpful :D , this could be the first good Doom novel! One thing you have to be extra careful though is repecting the legacy of the games.You mentioned you wanted to use more futuristic weapons, right? I'm not quite so sure about that.

About the demons, well, if you don't want to go my route, then you could make them 100% pure brutality, the downside is that they could become boring fast. One thing you could do is reveal later on in the novel(after the doomguy ponders on the existence of god/aliens) that humanity is alone in the universe, without any god/ higher power nor any other lifeforms survival being the only thing that has meaning because everyone goes to hell after he dies.Does the doomguy tell Earth about this when he goes home?It could demoralise a lot of people.Is this a scheme played by the demons?After all what's with all those inverted crosses?The trick is the make it as ambiguous as possible( another defining charactersitic of doom) without making it too vague and encourages the reader to give interpretations.

Could you give Romero a link to his thread?His opinions would be very useful indeed and I would really like to see him post more often here :)

Old Post 06-21-12 06:09 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
purist
Senior Member


Posts: 2037
Registered: 04-04


If you wanted to keep Doomguy's personality from the game, but didn't want it to affect your prose you could write in third person or write from the perspective of another character. If you did the latter it would obviously either have to be a surviving character or maybe from a different character for each chapter.

Old Post 06-21-12 06:55 #
purist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Waffenak
Forum Regular


Posts: 865
Registered: 10-09


I just read those two Doom 3 novels. Can't say I'm happy with them. First novel was all about preparations on the mars and second was more of a action but it mostly missed those juicy hell parts I liked.
I hope your writing project will be completed someday and will get blessing from Id.

Old Post 06-21-12 08:08 #
Waffenak is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Hi everyone, thanks a lot for all the input. Here are a few thoughts:

Quake references
I will cut this down to the teleportation project, which is called Project EARTHQUAKE. Any (tenuous) connection between Doom and Quake is up to the reader to determine. I don't see why they couldn't be worked into the same universe considering there is a BFG and super shotgun in each game and they both have similar attitudes and themes (blowing stuff up). However I am not writing these books just for myself, they're for everyone, so popular opinion has to prevail!

Weapons
The main character(s?) will only use weapons that feature in Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Doom 3 and Resurrection of Evil. There is mention of more futuristic weapons but these do not work due to some kind of damping field or other hellish tomfoolery. I am not planning to include a soul cube, at least for now, although I want to keep the idea of a vastly powerful alien race sacrificing itself so the galaxy could be free.

Characterising the demons
The creatures will be demons from Hell. The UAC will put out misinformation about a genetic mutation, but it is not a genetic mutation. To begin with at least, the demons will be a horrifying force of death and torture. The more powerful creatures will be all but unstoppable; no running round in circles blasting endless rockets into them, the Hell Barons for example are powerhouses of destruction. Characterisation will come from certain humans who are in league with the demons (not all of these people are possessed or soulless, they are acting of their free will). I am considering the Spider Demons to be capable of interacting with humans, perhaps through some form of telekenisis, although that seems somehow cliched.

Plot of the first novel
I was considering just focusing on the Doom Marine trying to survive a situation gone to Hell but maybe I could do a Doom 3 by starting with things going wrong for the scientists.

Old Post 06-21-12 13:15 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11



MajorRawne said:
Hi everyone, thanks a lot for all the input. Here are a few thoughts:

Quake references
I will cut this down to the teleportation project, which is called Project EARTHQUAKE. Any (tenuous) connection between Doom and Quake is up to the reader to determine. I don't see why they couldn't be worked into the same universe considering there is a BFG and super shotgun in each game and they both have similar attitudes and themes (blowing stuff up). However I am not writing these books just for myself, they're for everyone, so popular opinion has to prevail!

Weapons
The main character(s?) will only use weapons that feature in Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Doom 3 and Resurrection of Evil. There is mention of more futuristic weapons but these do not work due to some kind of damping field or other hellish tomfoolery. I am not planning to include a soul cube, at least for now, although I want to keep the idea of a vastly powerful alien race sacrificing itself so the galaxy could be free.

Characterising the demons
The creatures will be demons from Hell. The UAC will put out misinformation about a genetic mutation, but it is not a genetic mutation. To begin with at least, the demons will be a horrifying force of death and torture. The more powerful creatures will be all but unstoppable; no running round in circles blasting endless rockets into them, the Hell Barons for example are powerhouses of destruction. Characterisation will come from certain humans who are in league with the demons (not all of these people are possessed or soulless, they are acting of their free will). I am considering the Spider Demons to be capable of interacting with humans, perhaps through some form of telekenisis, although that seems somehow cliched.

Plot of the first novel
I was considering just focusing on the Doom Marine trying to survive a situation gone to Hell but maybe I could do a Doom 3 by starting with things going wrong for the scientists.



I think that dampening force is quite a bad reason not to use more futuristric weapons. I would just leave them as they are becuase people are very sensitive to change here and it's very easy to anger a lot of the users. And humans in cahoots with the demons?...i'm not sure about that.

Old Post 06-21-12 14:16 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Hi, thanks again to everyone who has provided useful input in this thread.

I'm currently getting info about military tactics and technology from a friend in the Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm. This is more to do with an original sci-fi novel and to help me out with aircraft and Imperial Navy stuff in my Black Library stories (I've submitted one and have three more to submit this week).

On the other hand our hero from Doom is described as a Space Marine and it makes sense that he would be used to fighting from a starship, being landed via dropship or some such method, so I need to have working knowledge of that stuff in real-world terms so I can give it the sci-fi treatment.

Since there is no mention of UAC being an American company - more of a multinational organisation - I've provisionally created a One World Order-style government for Earth, but far from being sinister it's actually a decent arrangement; it does have its problems, but they are merely hinted at through dialogue.

The UAC is a legitimate company, it's just the Martian branch that has kind of diverged from accepted practice. The moons of Phobos and Deimos are used to test military hardware. As a link to Doom 3, the UAC has discovered alien technology on Mars and is using it on the two moons. Since the military became involved, things have gone downhill for UAC Mars and there's a lot of creepy stuff.

It is actually Deimos that gets hit first, which explains why it's more hellish and eventually disappears from Martian orbit. The Marines land on Phobos first because that is still broadcasting and it clearly states that the Deimos personnel have all been wiped out.

In keeping with the bare bones storyline, our hero is left to guard the lander but it gets hit badly at the same time his squad are heard screaming about being attacked over the radio. It's implied a Cyberdemon blasts the lander. Our hero barely escapes with just his old-school pistol considering his landing craft has just blown up around him. Despite being old-school, the pistol is still better than anything we have. It's very accurate even at a medium distance and the bullets are small so the magazine (if that's the correct word for pistol ammo) has a very large bullet capacity.

I'm still considering starting with UAC personnel noting how things are getting creepy before the disaster hits. The Doom Marine would arrive 25%-50% of the way in, so people don't get skanked and have to buy the second book just to read what should have happened in the first.

EDIT below:

WADs that will definitely get sneaky references:
Ultimate Doom
Doom 2
Final Doom
Alien Vendetta
Forced & Painful Chocolate Shotgun
Hell Revealed 1&2
Memento Mori 1&2
Requiem
STRAIN
Threshold of Pain

Please suggest any more that are worthy?

Old Post 06-24-12 14:59 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11


You're on the right track.Keep it up! As I said, you should write a chapter that won't be included in the book, just so we can judge it/ give you advice and help you find the best possible style.

EDIT: Also, in order to make monster deaths more varied, you could describe monster fatalities from Brutal Doom. The new zombie scream when they are critically wounded is phenomenal as is the animation.

EDIT 2: Since most of your story will be based on Doom 1, referencing some of those mods could bring up plot holes because a lot of them take place AFTER Doom 1 and even Doom 2.

I like the fact that you are using Doom 3 elements, put more!(But I think the basis should be classic doom)

Last edited by DooM_RO on 06-24-12 at 15:42

Old Post 06-24-12 15:03 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MajorRawne
Senior Member


Posts: 1303
Registered: 04-10


Hi, thanks for the input. I'm rushing to hit a Black Library deadline on 30th June, so I'll write a Doom-related short story in July and I'll also work up a rough Doom timeline to help myself with the novels.

References to stuff from Doom 2 would be "foreshadowing" later events which will also help to maintain consistency between the two books I'm planning.

As for monsters, I will stick to PC Doom for "monster deployment", so unlike the PSX version of Doom, there will be no Doom 2 monsters in the Ultimate Doom part of the story. The only problem is, the Hell Baron is so utterly badass that the Knights will have to take a different route: they are not given pride of place as they are in Doom 3, they are definitely not as tough or dangerous as the Baron, but most of the other monsters still pale in comparison to Knights.

I haen't played Brutal Doom so I'll check that out. Bear in mind that the main character cannot truly revel in the death of his enemies: he is supposed to be fighting for the forces of good (although this doesn't become a simple, cliched battle against good and evil). The sadism comes from the demons. But don't worry, the Doom Marine still enjoys kicking demon arse.

Finally - just had a go on Quake 4 for the 360 and I can comfortably imagine the events of Doom taking place in the same universe as Quake, just like DS9 is happening at broadly the same time as TNG except in a different corner of the galaxy, but it's probably better not to start linking two different franchises.

Old Post 06-24-12 18:17 #
MajorRawne is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1532
Registered: 02-11


You haven't played Brutal Doom?! Man, you should TOTALLY give it a try. I have never seen so much violence in a video game before and it's not out of place either.

Speaking about the doomguy, have you decided how his personality is going to be? Now, you do what you want but I still take the victory screens as a reference. He should be like that or like that black guy in Event Horizon.

Old Post 06-24-12 20:53 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
valhallaist
Junior Member


Posts: 112
Registered: 03-10


Only thing to say about Doom novels: Hell or GTFO.

Old Post 06-25-12 18:12 #
valhallaist is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:25. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): [1] 2 »  
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > New Doom novels... your thoughts?

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.