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Clonehunter
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I think Doom 2 in terms of level completion (THough I had Real Guns mod lol), and I have maybe two levels of normal Doom yet to go hrough. I've made only a tiny dent in Ultimate Doom, beating the first two levels and the Boss level fairly. Got through a bit over half in Plutonia before that computer crashed. Haven't the heart to go through again.

Old Post Sep 29 2012 04:32 #
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SYS
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Ultimate Doom, specifically Shores of Hell. As we all know, Doom 2 had some really shitty maps. Not worth experiencing more than a play through IMO.

Old Post Sep 29 2012 23:09 #
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Platinum Shell
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Funny how you said "As we all know" then had the follow up sentence include "IMO".

Old Post Sep 30 2012 00:49 #
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SYS
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Which is my own sentiment to the consensus. As soon as you get into the "city" map sets it's mostly downhill from there. Bland, boring, and ugly. Ask any talented mapper here what they think.

Ultimate Doom had better level design.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 01:08 #
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Platinum Shell
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I partially agree with you; I see what you're getting at, but in my first statement I was just explaining how contradictory your two sentences were.

Just putting IMO in the first would have ironed it out fine. But I do agree, while they were kind of odd and dull, I always looked at it as more of it being "looks what happened to erff!1!" kind of message.

Doom 1's setting being off of our common ground allowed more unique, refined and overall better feel to it's levels and also in terms of general gameplay.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 02:58 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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SYS said:
Ask any talented mapper here what they think.

Do I count as talented? Because I think that nobody has ever really managed to answer the question of what's wrong with Doom 2's later maps. You mention aesthetics, but there are plenty of later Doom 2 maps with great aesthetics. Sure, there's garbage like MAP21, MAP23 and MAP24, but there's MAP14, MAP22, MAP26, MAP29, etc. to make up for those.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 03:34 #
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SYS
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I never mentioned necessarily a specific point in Doom 2. But you yourself can realize and acknowledge that certain parts are very flawed. Hence the communal view. Shitty parts don't absolve bad parts from ever occurring. Consult any valid religious text you've ever heard for a means of perspective. Maps that have a legacy of sucking will never go beyond sucking. Doesn't matter what iD did to make them a consumable product. They fucking sucked. Carmack if by some strange miracle you read this, nod and agree. Or dismiss me as a self entitled cunt. Sub cultures have asked for much worse :D

Old Post Sep 30 2012 11:20 #
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Clonehunter
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I think that Doom 2's later "city" maps are bad because the wood textures are dull in color, and the maps are boring in themselves. I think they're just boring to play, the textures more or less stick like dolldrums, or something anyways.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 17:04 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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SYS said:
I never mentioned necessarily a specific point in Doom 2. But you yourself can realize and acknowledge that certain parts are very flawed. Hence the communal view. Shitty parts don't absolve bad parts from ever occurring. Consult any valid religious text you've ever heard for a means of perspective. Maps that have a legacy of sucking will never go beyond sucking. Doesn't matter what iD did to make them a consumable product. They fucking sucked. Carmack if by some strange miracle you read this, nod and agree. Or dismiss me as a self entitled cunt. Sub cultures have asked for much worse :D

Just tell me what's wrong with Doom 2, or what the original does so much better than it, rather than beating around the bush. I suspect you can't actually answer the question.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 18:15 #
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Snakes
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SYS said:
I never mentioned necessarily a specific point in Doom 2. But you yourself can realize and acknowledge that certain parts are very flawed. Hence the communal view.

There's plenty about Doom that is flawed when you get down to brass tacks, and moreso than Doom 2, I'd say. The idea that there's a communal view on this is ridiculous statement that shows off an egocentric attitude.

Plenty of people like those Doom 2 maps, just as there are people who will prefer TNT to Plutonia, or hell, to get away from IWADs, Memento Mori to Memento Mori 2.

I'll go ahead and state factually that the map design of Doom 2 showed serious improvement over it's predecessor on nearly every imaginable front... And I'd like to think that I'm, at least, a somewhat talented mapper.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 20:26 #
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Platinum Shell
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Snakes said:
There's plenty about Doom that is flawed when you get down to brass tacks, and moreso than Doom 2, I'd say. The idea that there's a communal view on this is ridiculous statement that shows off an egocentric attitude.

Plenty of people like those Doom 2 maps, just as there are people who will prefer TNT to Plutonia, or hell, to get away from IWADs, Memento Mori to Memento Mori 2.

I'll go ahead and state factually that the map design of Doom 2 showed serious improvement over it's predecessor on nearly every imaginable front... And I'd like to think that I'm, at least, a somewhat talented mapper.

I full-heartedy agree.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 21:11 #
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hex11
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Dragonsbrethren said:
Sure, there's garbage like MAP21, MAP23 and MAP24

They're more "experimental" then others, but I still like them. In fact, The Chasm is one of my favorites in the IWAD.

For me, the lame maps are 30, 31, 32.

Old Post Sep 30 2012 23:40 #
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Raptomex
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When we're talking about the official games, Ultimate Doom. If we're talking about custom wads then Doom 2.

Old Post Oct 2 2012 08:27 #
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Philnemba
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Ultimate Doom ep 1 & 2

Old Post Oct 3 2012 03:17 #
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Demon_Collector
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Doom II- When I was a kid in the 90's I only knew of Doom 2. I was only 8 when I first played it and enjoyed it all. It was only a few years ago I played Ultimate Doom.

Old Post Oct 6 2012 10:45 #
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