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LakiSoft
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I know question is stupid. But because EP4 was made later it broke a fun. For me somehow Doom 1 are better than Ultimate Doom 1 because it's don't an episode which is made after Doom2 as a expansion and because it's original. Does anybody here has similar thinking as me about Ultimate Doom?

Old Post 09-27-12 21:58 #
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fraggle
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LakiSoft said:
But because EP4 was made later it broke a fun. For me somehow Doom 1 are better than Ultimate Doom 1 because it's don't an episode which is made after Doom2 as a expansion and because it's original.
Sorry, but your English is quite difficult to understand. Can you clarify what you mean here?

Old Post 09-27-12 22:14 #
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LakiSoft
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fraggle said:
Sorry, but your English is quite difficult to understand. Can you clarify what you mean here?


I mean, episode 4 was made later, so may developers lost ideas. So that's way Episode 4 are not good as a first three. Do you guys more prefer Doom 1 to Ultimate Doom? Because Ultimate one are more expansion pack than a game. Do i speak English better now?

Old Post 09-27-12 22:17 #
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esselfortium
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Ultimate Doom, of course. E4M2 and E4M6 alone are great maps that almost make up for how bland and flat the level design is throughout much of episodes 2 and 3. I'm not sure what's leading you to suggest that the developers ran out of ideas.

Old Post 09-27-12 22:34 #
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Nomad
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I don't personally care a lot for the levels in Ep4, but they are of high quality. Probably moreso than much of episodes 2 and 3 as Essel pointed out.

Old Post 09-27-12 22:35 #
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LakiSoft
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Okey then. :) Just ask. I asked same on another forum and look answers: http://thedoomuniverse.prophpbb.com/topic319.html

For that "Developers ran out of ideas" i meant that if episode 4 was made later it is not cool as a originals but i agree that E4M6 kick ass. ;)

Old Post 09-27-12 22:42 #
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Enjay
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Personally, I've always considered episode 4 as a bolt-on extra that doesn't really fit with the original game with regards to appearance, gameplay or even "story". I regard the original three episodes as being what Doom is and episode 4 more like a mission pack like "The Scourge of Armagon" is for Quake (but free, obviously) or, in modern speak, a DLC-like add on.

As for the maps themselves, I'm with Nomad. Personally, I don't enjoy them but some of them are technically very good. Indeed, the more sophisticated mapping in some of them might be part of why they don't fit with the rest of the game. :P

Old Post 09-27-12 22:52 #
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qoncept
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I like e4 a lot more than e2 and e3. I played just e1 and Doom 2 for a long time before I ever bought Ultimate Doom so I was presented 2-4 all at once.

The majority of e2 and 3 seem like they were just whipped up to get the game out the door. e2m1 seems particularly poor, and e2m2 is one of the most annoying maps I've ever played. I'm glad I never spent my money on them till e4 was added.

Old Post 09-27-12 22:59 #
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hex11
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E4 is missing intermission screen map, which for me added a lot to the game. Before Doom, I played a lot of AD&D, so the background story, location context and exploration aspect are at least as important as the action itself. E4 is a good mapset (the new sky and texture themes are pretty cool too) but it doesn't quite cut it as an episode.

Old Post 09-27-12 23:24 #
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ComicMischief
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A stupid question from Lakisoft? Say it isn't so.

Ultimate all the way, for the record. Episode 4 varies in terms of quality (although E4M2 is a masterpiece, I'll always say) but small changes to the other levels such as the switch in E1M1 with the huge-ass shortcut; which also opens up the stage for more flowing DeathMatches; just give it a little more 'zing'.

Old Post 09-27-12 23:40 #
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Nomad
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LakiSoft said:
Okey then. :) Just ask. I asked same on another forum and look answers: http://thedoomuniverse.prophpbb.com/topic319.html



In response to that "Skibbi" person, how is non-Ultimate Doom better for modding? Pretty sure the resources are the same.

Old Post 09-27-12 23:44 #
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ComicMischief
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Nomad said:
In response to that "Skibbi" person, how is non-Ultimate Doom better for modding?


Less level slots means less Oblige 'work'?

Old Post 09-27-12 23:49 #
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glenzinho
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ComicMischief, you have won this thread.

Old Post 09-28-12 00:26 #
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GreyGhost
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I'm taking the middle ground and nominating Registered Doom. Doom 1 has too few episodes for my liking, while Ultimate Doom's fourth episode feels too much like an add-on. </pedantry>

Old Post 09-28-12 01:35 #
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Hellbent
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fraggle said:
Sorry, but your English is quite difficult to understand. Can you clarify what you mean here?
Doom 1 episode 4 is kind of a killjoy because it is an unofficial expansion that came after doom 2 came out and doom 1 is better without it.

And yes, I've always felt this way, although I enjoy individual maps such as e4m1, e4m2 and to some extent e4m3 and e4m5.

Old Post 09-28-12 02:03 #
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CODOR
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E4 might be my second favourite episode (after E1). I'm thinking it's because I didn't have a copy of the full game until I got Ultimate Doom. I know at least one of my friends had a warezed copy of Registered Doom, so I'd be familiar with E2 and E3 (even if I hadn't played all of the maps yet), but there'd be more novelty playing the brand-new E4 than the other maps.

Or maybe E2. Depends on which one I've played most recently...

Old Post 09-28-12 02:21 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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When I first got Ultimate Doom, I definitely preferred E4 to E2 or E3. I find myself replaying the latter two a lot more often, though, and have really come to appreciate them.

Old Post 09-28-12 03:06 #
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Maes
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Hellbent said:
Doom 1 episode 4 is kind of a killjoy because it is an unofficial expansion


What are the countless episode replacement PWADS in idgames then? What more would it take to be considered "official" other than, you know, be released by id, sold as a completely "new" product, and even be included in the v1.9 patch?

Old Post 09-28-12 08:37 #
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DoomUK
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When I think of "Doom 1" I think of Ultimate Doom.

Old Post 09-28-12 09:04 #
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cannonball
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Ultimate doom, the slight changes to the original levels were all beneficial and episode 4 was really good, e4m1,2,5,6,7 I thought were great maps. The story was a little stupid but it did introduce at the end doom 2 (ie the looking down on earth and seeing it being invaded by hellspawn)
In the end episode 4 was just a set of maps with a similar theme throughout without much of a story, just a bonus episode.

Old Post 09-28-12 10:38 #
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hex11
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Maes said:


What are the countless episode replacement PWADS in idgames then? What more would it take to be considered "official" other than, you know, be released by id, sold as a completely "new" product, and even be included in the v1.9 patch?



That's true, and in the literal sense anything released by id software is official, even if they slap DOOM franchise name on a fantasy-themed collectible card game. But there is also the matter of authenticity (how true/faithful something is to the original).

Old Post 09-28-12 10:42 #
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LakiSoft
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Ok, guys. I just asked because E4 is more like addon. I just wanted to see that you guys think. :)

Old Post 09-28-12 13:00 #
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Reinchard666
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For me Doom is Doom1 not Ultimate. I don't like 4 episode, the sky and maps don't feet good to original Doom imo. Original 3 episodes has different atmosphere, more descent, more amazing and more horror - like. I remember day when I finally played Ultmiate version and I was very disappointed when I see first map and the orange sky. There is a few fine places in another levels but they are not even half as good as places form original 3 episodes. Look at maps like Unholy Cathedral, Mt. Erebus, Spawning Vats, Deimos Lab - you will not see anything as good as this maps in 4 episode.

Old Post 09-28-12 15:30 #
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LakiSoft
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Reinchard666 said:
For me Doom is Doom1 not Ultimate. I don't like 4 episode, the sky and maps don't feet good to original Doom imo. Original 3 episodes has different atmosphere, more descent, more amazing and more horror - like. I remember day when I finally played Ultmiate version and I was very disappointed when I see first map and the orange sky. There is a few fine places in another levels but they are not even half as good as places form original 3 episodes. Look at maps like Unholy Cathedral, Mt. Erebus, Spawning Vats, Deimos Lab - you will not see anything as good as this maps in 4 episode.


I agree with you. Expect for E6M6. :)

Old Post 09-28-12 15:37 #
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Xaser
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E6? I haven't even made that yet! :P

On topic, I'm of the "why NOT Ultimate Doom?" opinion. Love or hate E4, I don't see the advantage of sticking to an older IWAD unless you're a port developer or super-hardcore collector type. UDoom's got everything that Doom the First has got, so you're not missing anything. :P

Or is the question is meant to be phrased more like "when you think of Doom, so you think of 3 episodes or 4?" That's a bit more interesting, I suppose, than bare IWAD ownership. Personally, I always include E4 in the list because Ultimate was the first Doom I played since the shareware. I know -- not oldschool enough. D:

Old Post 09-28-12 16:33 #
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Maes
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Xaser said:
Or is the question is meant to be phrased more like "when you think of Doom, so you think of 3 episodes or 4?


That's a much better way of putting it...I admit I have a soft spot for Doom v1.1, with all of its glitches, limitations and quirks ;-)

Old Post 09-28-12 16:36 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Maes said:


That's a much better way of putting it...I admit I have a soft spot for Doom v1.1, with all of its glitches, limitations and quirks ;-)


E1M5 just doesn't feel right with that "new" secret.

Old Post 09-28-12 16:40 #
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Xaser
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Hmm, keeping old versions like that might be kinda fun for glitch-hunting, I agree. So maybe there's another reason for multiple Dooms. Not that any of us need a reason for more Doom, now that I think about it. :P

Old Post 09-28-12 16:40 #
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Snakes
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Reinchard666 said:
For me Doom is Doom1 not Ultimate. I don't like 4 episode, the sky and maps don't feet good to original Doom imo.

I'll let you slide on not being fond of E4, but you take back that bit about the sky!!!

Old Post 09-28-12 16:45 #
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Eris Falling
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There was nothing wrong with E4 itself, although they could've ordered the levels better, i personally would've put Unruly Evil first...
The only thing I really didn't like was that bloody switch in E1M1 which took you outside.

Old Post 09-28-12 16:47 #
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