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Badboy
Junior Member


Posts: 128
Registered: 09-12


i just started playing custom wads, i played 5 megawads. i have some questions, i need answeres =)

- was there never an ambition to release standalone games? a wad that not use doom I and doom II. the source code was released, right.
- why was there no standalone game in the early doom days. was it cool to use the original textures? or was it forbidden to do standalones. or was this idea just unthinkable (technical problems, no motivation).

- in the early days did the mappers follow the id form/maprules in more-level-wads? planet at beginning and in the end in hell. weak weapon at beginning. what is the canon in the early days until today.
- are there community mapping "rules" today that differs from the id original level.
- how would you describe modern doom mapdesign. what is contained.
- what is the level map count today in a wad, i know megawad (32 level) but no other "formats". what is the mapcount of a mini wad, a normal wad? did it change over time.

- what are mapdesign cliches. i read to do a small room with many monster is a cliche. or do a secret shotgun room. are there more cliches? and what do the community think about cliches, is it okay to use cliches, is it uncool or cliches are fun.

- why did id this menu for masters levels and release single maps (wads) instead of a full wad with all levels.

- non-offical commercial addons. i found these: Hacx, Hell to Pay, Perditions Gate, The Lost Episodes of Doom. are there more?

and did the publishers all get in contact with id to get their blessings? what was the politic from id. they said yes to all? did they care or not? was it important to get in contact with id. i mean when quake 1 was released, the unoffical custom addons/total conversions were all over the place, retail boxes everywhere. i dont think that every dever/publisher got in contact with id in the quake days. i cant still believe it.

- i dont know how people think about gameplay. when i say master levels are really crazy, cool mapdesign ideas, suprises, and the skill is hard. and 'no rest for the living' from nerve is a cool mini episode, but there are not many crazy things in it, like teleporter madness etc. its cool but a bit conservative. i play at the moment 'memento mori 2' from 1996 and i dont think gameplay and mapdesign can go better than that (suprises in mapdesign, hard, crazy ideas). would someone see it like me or would you say i have seen nothing =)

Last edited by Badboy on 10-16-12 at 12:57

Old Post 10-16-12 12:40 #
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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 11267
Registered: 07-07



Badboy said:
- was there never an ambition to release standalone games? a wad that not use doom I and doom II.

Action Doom II: Urban Brawl
Harmony
Hacx 1.2
Hacx 2.0
Chex Quest
Chex Quest 3
Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch
Wolfenstein 3D TC

All of these are stand-alone.


Badboy said:
- why was there no standalone game in the early doom days.

Define early. Early enough, and you had to buy the license from Id Software to make something truly stand-alone (e.g., Chex Quest). Otherwise, you had to make it as a PWAD. Resource-wise, nothing prevents, say, Batman Doom or Hacx 1.1 from being stand-alone; they were true TC.


Badboy said:
- in the early days did the mappers follow the id form/maprules in more-level-wads? planet at beginning and in the end in hell. weak weapon at beginning. what is the canon in the early days until today.

Most people did pretty much whatever they wanted, including a clumsy model of their house with 90 cyberdemons and 500 BFG 9000 in the garden; using CEMPOIS as the only texture.


Badboy said:
- are there community mapping "rules" today that differs from the id original level.

The rule "do not distribute anywhere else than on Compuserve" has pretty much disappeared (mostly because Compuserve is dead, and so is most of Bob Evans' maps, ahahah).


Badboy said:
- how would you describe modern doom mapdesign.

"Motley".

You've got insanely detailed maps that look like they're from a Quake II engine (Ed C.'s Putrefier); you've got maps with simple and clean aesthetics that work within the original engine's limits; you've got crappy maps that compare unfavorably to randomly-generated ones; and you've got everything in between.


Badboy said:
- what is the level map count today in a wad, i know megawad (32 level) but no other "formats". what is the mapcount of a mini wad, a normal wad? did it change over time.

Map count goes between just one and several dozens.

Also, the technical definition of megawad as used on the idgames archive is "15 levels or more". You don't need to have 32 levels for it to be a megawad. The other classification is "episode", but there's no set limit. A Doom II episode can be 6 levels (MAP01-MAP06), 5 levels (MAP07-MAP11), 4 levels (MAP12-MAP15 with secret exit), 9 levels (MAP12-MAP20 with normal exit at MAP15), or 10 levels (MAP21-MAP30). A Doom episode can be 8 levels (without secret level) or 9. A Chex Quest episode is 5 levels. If you use MAPINFO, an episode can be anywhere between 2 and virtually infinite levels.


Badboy said:
- why did id this menu for masters levels and release single maps (wads) instead of a full wad with all levels.

Because the maps weren't designed to fit in some sort of progression.


Badboy said:
- non-offical commercial addons. i found these: Hacx, Hell to Pay, Perditions Gate, The Lost Episodes of Doom. are there more?

Action Doom II was sold (though it was also available for free).


Badboy said:
and did the publishers all get in contact with id to get their blessings?

Presumably. I do not have access to Id Software's accounting and legal archives to check who bought licenses from them. I know the Hacx guys did, and so did Wraith Corporation. Not sure about Sybex. Technically, they sold a book; the game data was a bonus to the book.


Badboy said:
- i dont know how people think about gameplay. when i say master levels are really crazy, cool mapdesign ideas, suprises, and the skill is hard. and 'no rest for the living' from nerve is a cool mini episode, but there are not many crazy things in it, like teleporter madness etc. its cool but a bit conservative. i play at the moment 'memento mori 2' from 1996 and i dont think gameplay and mapdesign can go better than that (suprises in mapdesign, hard, crazy ideas). would someone see it like me or would you say i have seen nothing =)

MM2 is a classic for good reason, but there are many other mods that are at least its equal.

And if you want to see surprises and crazy ideas, you ought to check out some of Mike Watson's or Aluqah's maps. Try Zort 08, Massmouth 2, Oniria 2, or Mandrill Ass Project.

Old Post 10-16-12 13:09 #
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Maes
I like big butts!


Posts: 12706
Registered: 07-06



Badboy said:
- was there never an ambition to release standalone games? a wad that not use doom I and doom II. the source code was released, right.


To the public, only after 1997. If you count Heretic/Hexen as "standalone games with different resources but the same source code", then yeah, there was an ambition and was fulfilled. Only catch? They were commercially licensed to use the Doom source way before it became free.

Old Post 10-16-12 14:08 #
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Badboy
Junior Member


Posts: 128
Registered: 09-12


thank you Gez, impressive! now i have something to google :) bob evans, Putrefier and the map choices.

>Most people did pretty much whatever they wanted, including a clumsy model of their house with 90 cyberdemons and 500 BFG 9000 in the garden; using CEMPOIS as the only texture.

i had to laugh loud **

>You've got insanely detailed maps that look like they're from a Quake II engine (Ed C.'s Putrefier)

i read on a 0815 website that nerve`s "No Rest for the Living" has "better graphics" than doom. i dont remember that the textures were detailed. hm can i see detail textures in the wad file size or detailed textures are very small.


good point Maes, i just forgot that they licensed the doom engine.

Old Post 10-16-12 16:13 #
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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 11267
Registered: 07-07



Badboy said:
thank you Gez, impressive! now i have something to google :) bob evans, Putrefier and the map choices.


Putrefier is here. Bob Evans' Odessa series is pretty much nowhere, except for this one. Everything else can be found here.

A good place to start looking at interesting mods is this list.


Badboy said:
i read on a 0815 website that nerve`s "No Rest for the Living" has "better graphics" than doom.

The sprites and textures aren't any different. However, the resolution was increased (pretty much like using most source ports) and the levels are more detailed, so it might convey the impression of better graphics.

Old Post 10-16-12 16:24 #
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