Doom 3 BFG strange behaviour with censored version.

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cybdmn
Junior Member

Posts: 210
Registered: 06-09

I played my old XBLA version of Doom II to Map31 (uncensored version) and saved. The savegames are compatible, so i wanted to see the censorship on my own TV. I fired up Doom 3 BFG Edition, and loaded the first savegame in Map31. Guess what, the map is full of SS Nazis. All other censorship stuff is intact, no symbols on the walls, the music is changed, the mapnames in mapview and intermission screens are changed, but not the enemies. Can anybody, who have the game for the XBox360 confirm, that the enemies are changed in this version? Is it really just a strange behaviour in this combination?

10-20-12 23:16 #

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Bouncy
Junior Member

Posts: 122
Registered: 07-04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snCRIl16ks

Just a weird glitch from your save.

10-20-12 23:34 #

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cybdmn
Junior Member

Posts: 210
Registered: 06-09

Yes, i know that video. But as you can see, it is the PC version (note the mouse cursor), not the 360 version.

10-20-12 23:45 #

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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!

Posts: 9138
Registered: 07-07

The SmurfStaffel nazis have been replaced in the map. However, a savegame serializes all the mobjs, since some may have been entirely removed (e.g., a dead lost soul) while others may have been created (a dropped clip, a fireball, a monster spawned by the icon of sin...).

So, your save contained a map full of nazis, which is what was loaded.

If you could see them, it would mean that the IWAD in the console did not mangle the SSWV sprites for some reason. (Otherwise, you'd be facing invisible enemies since the offsets push them far below the floor.)

10-20-12 23:46 #

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Bouncy
Junior Member

Posts: 122
Registered: 07-04

It applies to all versions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks1NWHFK3lY

If not that one, then let this one confirm it.

Edit: Yeah, Gez's explanation applies too. I'd suspect the BFG Doom 2 IWAD would still have censored sprites for all versions, but, maaybe not? o.O

10-20-12 23:46 #

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cybdmn
Junior Member

Posts: 210
Registered: 06-09

What Gez said. I loaded a MAP15 savegame with the BFG version, and when i enter MAP31, all SS are replaced by zombiemen.
But it seems, the not just changed the graphics. The SS are really more aggressive and they do far more damage. The zombiemen react like the actual zombiemen, not like the SS with exchanged graphics.

10-21-12 00:10 #

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Bouncy
Junior Member

Posts: 122
Registered: 07-04

Yeah, the censored levels replaced all the SS guys with actual Zombiemen.

Kind of makes replacing all the SS's sprites pointless, but they didn't do a good job on that at all <with them all being POSSA1 with butchered offsets>, so, eh.

10-21-12 00:16 #

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scalliano
This door is opened elsewhere...

Posts: 967
Registered: 08-09

Gez said:
If you could see them, it would mean that the IWAD in the console did not mangle the SSWV sprites for some reason. (Otherwise, you'd be facing invisible enemies since the offsets push them far below the floor.)

Probably no need, given that it's unlikely that the console IWADs would be accessed bu users in the same way the PC can be.

Not that they are completely inaccessible, of course ;)

10-21-12 02:20 #

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chungy
Doomworld is so about bullshit excuses

Posts: 1691
Registered: 06-05

Considering the fuss that happened over normally-inaccessible Grand Theft Auto content, it is a bit odd.

10-21-12 03:04 #

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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 6691
Registered: 08-04

Lazy, id. Lazy.

10-21-12 03:14 #

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fraggle
Super Moderator

Posts: 6565
Registered: 07-00

I don't blame Id for being lazy to be honest. It's an 18 year old joke and they're just trying to make a game that's mostly intact. I doubt there was a huge amount of money to spend on making this available for XBLA. No doubt the instruction was simply to strip out any reference to Germans or Nazis, and it looks like that's exactly what they've done.

Looks like they screwed up reading the sample rate field on the super shotgun sound effects though.

10-21-12 04:15 #

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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 6691
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fraggle said:
I don't blame Id for being lazy to be honest. It's an 18 year old joke and they're just trying to make a game that's mostly intact. I doubt there was a huge amount of money to spend on making this available for XBLA. No doubt the instruction was simply to strip out any reference to Germans or Nazis, and it looks like that's exactly what they've done.

But it sounds like they went out of their way and took the difficult route. Wouldn't it have been easier to open the map up in an editor and replace the monsters? They could have then deleted the SS guard's resources without it effecting the game what so ever.

Looks like they screwed up reading the sample rate field on the super shotgun sound effects though.

The shotgun sounds like it is made of wood.

10-21-12 04:28 #

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fraggle
Super Moderator

Posts: 6565
Registered: 07-00

Technician said:

The shotgun sounds like it is made of wood.

As a source port author, it's like a classic bug. Most of Doom's sound effects are at 11025Hz sampling rate, but the super shotgun sounds are 22050Hz. There's a field at the start of the sound lumps that specifies the sampling rate, but it's easy to make the assumption that all Doom's sounds are 11025Hz - if you do that, most sounds play correctly but the SSG sounds play at half speed and sound like that. I think the original LinuxDoom source had the same bug when it was first released.

10-21-12 04:32 #

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Dragonsbrethren
Senior Member

Posts: 1448
Registered: 03-09

Technician said:
But it sounds like they went out of their way and took the difficult route. Wouldn't it have been easier to open the map up in an editor and replace the monsters? They could have then deleted the SS guard's resources without it effecting the game what so ever.

That's exactly what they did, isn't it? There aren't any SS monsters, they're replaced by zombiemen.

Edit: I may be wrong, but I seem to remember the XBLA port having the same SSG sound issue when I played the demo.

10-21-12 04:33 #

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Technician
Still no custom title

Posts: 6691
Registered: 08-04

Did they remove the Nazi themed textures from the wad? Did they replaced them manually or did they duplicate some unoffensive textures and substituted their names with the Nazi textures' so they didn't have to manually change the textures in an editor?

Dragonsbrethren said:
That's exactly what they did, isn't it? There aren't any SS monsters, they're replaced by zombiemen.

They did not remove the SS guard's resources becasue an old save file from v1.9 will load the SS guards. The save file records what enemy is and where, so an old save file has the SS guard's thing placement instead of the zombie's.

Last edited by Technician on 10-21-12 at 05:02

10-21-12 04:45 #

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Dragonsbrethren
Senior Member

Posts: 1448
Registered: 03-09

The Nazi patches have been replaced with the bare wall equivalents (the patches themselves were replaced, not the textures, which still reference the original patches). The music has been replaced with copies of D_DOOM using the same lump names as it originally did; that wasn't changed engine side. The SS sounds are unaltered.

I'm not sure what your point about the SS monster itself is. The monsters on the map itself were replaced, which is what your original post seemed to be asking. Obviously the SS are still present if loaded from a save game. The interesting thing is that they didn't bother overwriting the SS graphics for the 360 version. Given how sloppily it's done in the PC version, it wouldn't surprise me if that was some sort of last minute change.

Honestly, all this censor talk is getting old. They did the censorship in the least annoying way possible. Nothing was changed engine side so everything can be uncensored easily. Probably the worst change made was the removal of the titlepic lump. (And I guess the automap names, if you want to use id's engine.)

Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on 10-21-12 at 05:26

10-21-12 05:18 #

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