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I'm looking for some Hexen wads but without the switch hunts and hub-based puzzles but I'm not having any luck...

Basically, I'd like to run around in the Hexen world as I really like the monsters et cetera and just shoot lots of things!

Failing that, are there any Heretic wads that feature Hexen monsters out there?

Old Post Oct 29 2012 16:11 #
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Stilgar
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Resurrection of Chaos.

Old Post Oct 29 2012 17:59 #
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Gez
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Look here and there.

In particular, Abandoned Chapel, Necrosis, and Resurrection of Chaos are kinda low on puzzles.

For Heretic levels with a Hexen-like ambiance or Hexen monsters, you can look at Hordes of Chaos, How to Disappear Completely, and the last map of Call of the Apostate.

Old Post Oct 29 2012 18:11 #
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Quasar
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I've always thought it'd be cool to have a DOOM II IWAD sized Hexen mod that neglects hubs and focuses almost entirely on combat. Of course, it would probably get tiresome due to the limited monster selection :P

Old Post Oct 29 2012 18:34 #
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Gez
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Hexen's monster palette isn't that small:

All-purpose:
  • Afrit
  • Centaur + Slaughtaur
  • Ettin
  • Dark Bishop
  • Chaos Serpent (green and brown)
  • Stalker + Stalker Boss
  • Reiver
  • Wendigo
Bosses:
  • Evil player clones (Zedek, Traductus, Menelkir)
  • Death Wyvern
  • Heresiarch
  • Korax
In total, including the "mash" monsters that can be created only with ACS, you have 21 monsters. If you don't count variants separately, it's still 12 monsters. Doom II, in comparison, has a total of 20 monsters (including debatable cases such as the icon of sin, Commander Keen doll, and Wolfenstein SS); and if you cut out variants and easter-eggs, this drops to 13.

What it lacks is monster niches. There's quite a lot of overlap among monster roles (ettin == centaur, dark bishop == reiver, etc.) while the monsters in Doom II are more diverse in their use. Also, for some of the monsters, the distinction is simply that they are annoying: stalkers hide and become invincible, so you have to play whack-a-mole with them (or ignore them entirely); centaurs and slaughtaurs have a stupid fucking shield; the Heresiarch is invulnerable 90% of the time; etc.

Still, I think the limited weapon selection is a larger problem. If they had kept the Tome of Power so as to double each weapon's uses, or maybe added a couple additional non-ultimate weapons for each class, it would have been more entertaining overall. (With separate mana pools. There's nothing more annoying than alternating between ultimate weapon and beginning weapon because the ultimate gobble all your mana you cannot fall back to a mid-strength weapon.)

Old Post Oct 29 2012 19:03 #
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40oz
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I would have no trouble punching down hordes of Ettins without being bored. That was one of the most entertaining things about Hexen for me.

Old Post Oct 29 2012 19:21 #
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kristus
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"mash monsters"?

Old Post Oct 29 2012 22:58 #
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ROCK & LOAD
COCK BEEN BLOWED
IN YOUR MOUTH,
MANJUICE EXPLOAD


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Are there any Zandronum survival WADs for Hexen/Heretic?

Old Post Oct 29 2012 23:07 #
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Gez
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kristus said:
"mash monsters"?

Translucent ettins, centaurs, and chaos serpents of both colors. They do not have a doomednum, but they can be spawned with ACS (spawnid 100 to 103). Korax will summon some of them if you leave him enough time in Dark Crucible. (Or you can puke script 254 yourself when you're there. With ZDoom since the Hexen "puke" cheat code only goes up to 99.)

Old Post Oct 30 2012 00:54 #
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Sarcose
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I've always thought both Heretic and Hexen had rather lackluster bestiaries. What you said about Hexen is pretty much spot-on, and a similar analysis can be applied to Heretic. I guess when you don't allow hitscanners your options are limited... actually, now that I think about it, part of what makes DooM so fast-paced is probably the hitscanning monsters and weapons. Really think about it for a second: without hitscanners, DooM would be missing its "glass cannon" monsters - dangerous (because you can't dodge) but weak. Heretic, by comparison, has you either chasing and backing away from meleers constantly or playing dodgeball with everyone else.

Maybe I'm missing something about the monster dynamics in Heretic and Hexen but that seems to be an important distinction. Similarly, your only hitscanner in Heretic is the peashooter... I suppose criticizing its weapon variety has been done to death, though. All I'll say is, there is essentially very little balance. Later weapons are almost universally strictly better than earlier ones, without being designed to be more useful in certain situations than others, with the exception of the one weapon that does splash.

I suppose all of this criticism is based on mechanics that are supposed to be considered in Heretic's item system - but "Make all your weapons super badass" (Tome of Power) doesn't add to the variety, it just gives you a kill button.

Still, there's something about Heretic that makes it addictive to play. I've always been more comfortable in medieval fantasy settings.

Old Post Oct 30 2012 01:58 #
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Grazza
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It is hub-based, but you might want to consider Starship.

My T/nC review of it can be found here.

Old Post Oct 30 2012 02:38 #
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