Baron of Hell
User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Does the Red Cross issue apply to us?
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »  
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:42. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
BlueFireZ88
Junior Member


Posts: 207
Registered: 09-12


I'm sure everyone here knows about the situation with the Red Cross and how they went after the games industry for using their logo (even though the industry's been using it for well over 2 to 3 decades and that they only recently started reinforcing their trademark as of a few years ago).

The most obvious effect of this is Id changing the cross on medipacks to pills in the recent re-releases of the classic Doom games (notably BFG Edition).

But really, does that affect us, the Doom Community, at all? Does that stop us from using the cross symbol in our mods? I'm sure that there are those who wouldn't use it out of respect, but beyond that, is there anything stopping us?

Old Post Dec 14 2012 20:38 #
BlueFireZ88 is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
DooMAD
Bitcoin IS a religion.


Posts: 1523
Registered: 07-02


For the most part we're not making the crosses, just using something that already had crosses in it. Also, I think we fly low enough under the radar that no one notices/cares anyway.

Old Post Dec 14 2012 20:47 #
DooMAD is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Ribbiks
Senior Member


Posts: 1454
Registered: 02-11


you can copyright such a basic symbol? they should have picked a more unique logo

Old Post Dec 14 2012 20:51 #
Ribbiks is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Scypek2
Member


Posts: 600
Registered: 01-12



Ribbiks said:
you can copyright such a basic symbol? they should have picked a more unique logo

I heard that T-mobile tried to copyright magenta.

I want to copyright oxygen. They would have to pay for usage.

Old Post Dec 14 2012 21:18 #
Scypek2 is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 9190
Registered: 06-06


Well, it would definitely be nice if new mods would use something else than the red cross if they use different sprites for the health packs. This is more an issue of degrading the image by overexposure in entertainment media, and that applies here too.

__________________
Automatic Wolfenstein - Version 1.0.1 - also on Android (Updated 28/03/2015)

Old Post Dec 14 2012 21:24 #
printz is offline Twitter account Youtube Github || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
fraggle
Filled with the code of Doom


Posts: 8137
Registered: 07-00



Ribbiks said:
you can copyright such a basic symbol? they should have picked a more unique logo

It's not a copyright, or even a trademark. The Red Cross is a protected symbol under the Geneva Conventions. It's actually just one of four such symbols. Essentially every country that is a signatory to the conventions has passed a special law that protects these symbols. Under US law, it's 18 USC § 706. In the UK there's the Geneva Conventions Act.

Technically if you use it in a Doom mod you're probably violating the law and could be fined for it, but in practise what DoomAD says is right: nobody really pays any attention to Doom mods or is going to waste any time following up on it.

Old Post Dec 14 2012 21:27 #
fraggle is offline Twitter account Youtube Twitch Github || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 12389
Registered: 07-07


Unless you distribute a mod with modified graphics containing a red cross used to refer to medical supplies, you have no reason to be concerned.

And even if you do distribute mods with medikit sprites in them, they aren't going to do anything about it. Certainly, it's less of an issue than distributing copyrighted resources, like a MIDI track from Rise of the Triad and a bunch of textures from Hexen. (This describes something like half of all Doom II mods ever created.)

Old Post Dec 14 2012 21:42 #
Gez is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Eris Falling
Forum Staple


Posts: 3355
Registered: 07-12



Ribbiks said:
you can copyright such a basic symbol?

+

Take that society.

Old Post Dec 14 2012 21:43 #
Eris Falling is offline Youtube || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Jimi
Senior Member


Posts: 1656
Registered: 06-04


Does it only apply to red crosses on white background?

Old Post Dec 14 2012 23:06 #
Jimi is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Technician
a little slice of /pol/


Posts: 8509
Registered: 08-04



Jimi said:
Does it only apply to red crosses on white background?

No, any red cross that's symmetrical on all sides, even if stand-alone.

Last edited by Technician on Dec 14 2012 at 23:37

Old Post Dec 14 2012 23:31 #
Technician is online now || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Jimi
Senior Member


Posts: 1656
Registered: 06-04


What about red plus sign or red x? Does BFG edition change STCFN043?

Old Post Dec 14 2012 23:50 #
Jimi is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 12389
Registered: 07-07



Technician said:
No, any red cross that's symmetrical on all sides

Hah-ah! Thanks to aspect ratio correction making the top and bottom branches longer than the left and right branches, the red cross in Doom does not feature 90° axial symmetry! Loopholed! :p

Old Post Dec 14 2012 23:51 #
Gez is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Six
Member


Posts: 388
Registered: 02-10


In the recent releases of Doom, why didn't they just change the red cross to any other colour? Like for example, green...

The pill symbol just looks silly.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 00:07 #
Six is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Technician
a little slice of /pol/


Posts: 8509
Registered: 08-04



Six said:
In the recent releases of Doom, why didn't they just change the red cross to any other colour? Like for example, green...

I've thought of that, myself. Both Green Cross and Blue Cross are copyrighted symbols. They're not Geneva protected symbols, but id would open themselves to a copyright infringement claim.

I think changing the cross to a red H would have sufficed. I don't care for the pill symbol, either. It would be appropriate on the Berserker packs, though.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 00:18 #
Technician is online now || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 12389
Registered: 07-07


That green cross logo is more complex than a straight green +. It has a wavy curvature and is combined with a green leaf and (in negative space) a white sphere.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 00:28 #
Gez is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Sokoro
Member


Posts: 419
Registered: 10-10



Technician said:
I've thought of that, myself. Both Green Cross and Blue Cross are copyrighted symbols. They're not Geneva protected symbols, but id would open themselves to a copyright infringement claim.

I think changing the cross to a red H would have sufficed. I don't care for the pill symbol, either. It would be appropriate on the Berserker packs, though.

Then they could just use pink or orange cross. These colors also closer to red than green and blue.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 00:47 #
Sokoro is offline Twitch || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Maes
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 13664
Registered: 07-06



Technician said:
No, any red cross that's symmetrical on all sides, even if stand-alone.

Damn, Georgia barely escaped their rage (plenty of red crosses, but kinda curvy design).



Greece OTOH...suspiciously symmetrical cross, but OTOH we care about copyrights about as much G.W. Bush for an Iraqi's life ;-)

Old Post Dec 15 2012 00:48 #
Maes is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Platinum Shell
Forum Regular


Posts: 907
Registered: 08-11


Isn't that Maes like, the Baron's cross or something?

Old Post Dec 15 2012 00:49 #
Platinum Shell is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Maes
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 13664
Registered: 07-06



Platinum Shell said:
Isn't that Maes like, the Baron's cross or something?

Yeah....go figure. And ancient Greeks were nazis:


Old Post Dec 15 2012 01:24 #
Maes is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Avoozl
Forum Staple


Posts: 3356
Registered: 06-09


Could always swap the red and white around and have a red medkit with a white cross on it, but then it'd look like the Swedish flag. :P

Old Post Dec 15 2012 01:53 #
Avoozl is offline Youtube || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Platinum Shell
Forum Regular


Posts: 907
Registered: 08-11


Heh. Never even knew about that bit.

Or like how Hitler started using the Heil gesture - well as it's now called - after the American's were using it.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 01:54 #
Platinum Shell is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Captain Ventris
Junior Member


Posts: 215
Registered: 02-08


The Romans had that salute. You'll see plenty statues of Caesar doing it.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 04:07 #
Captain Ventris is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Eris Falling
Forum Staple


Posts: 3355
Registered: 07-12



Avoozl said:
Could always swap the red and white around and have a red medkit with a white cross on it, but then it'd look like the Swedish flag. :P



I think you mean Danish:

Old Post Dec 15 2012 10:27 #
Eris Falling is offline Youtube || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
ASD
Member


Posts: 302
Registered: 03-09


Or maybe:

Old Post Dec 15 2012 12:10 #
ASD is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Maes
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 13664
Registered: 07-06



Sweden-Switzerland mixup
Funny how this often occurs in languages where the names for both are too similar: e.g. Sweden vs Switzerland (Eng.), Suisse vs Suède (Fra.), Svizzera vs Svezia (Ita.), Schweiz vs Schweden (Ger.) etc. while e.g. in Greek it's Ελβετία (Helvetia) vs Σουηδία (Swedia). Much harder to mix up ;-)

Old Post Dec 15 2012 14:43 #
Maes is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
scalliano
This door is opened elsewhere...


Posts: 1285
Registered: 08-09


Crossposted from the ZDoom thread:
http://jaybot7.com/blog/game-develo...y-the-red-cross

Old Post Dec 15 2012 14:56 #
scalliano is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
fraggle
Filled with the code of Doom


Posts: 8137
Registered: 07-00


The Red Cross symbol actually originates with the Swiss flag - it's the same with the colors reversed. They chose that symbol because they wanted the Red Cross to be a neutral organisation, like how Switzerland is a neutral country.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 16:12 #
fraggle is offline Twitter account Youtube Twitch Github || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
CorSair
Senior Member


Posts: 1021
Registered: 11-12


The sign of red cross or rod of Asclepius always brings sort of comfort for me, even in games.
But it feels awkward for me. Why remove a universal symbol that means items which can aid people from their fatal wounds or cure them? It doesn't make sense for me.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 17:17 #
CorSair is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
ducon
Régulier du Forum


Posts: 1414
Registered: 12-03


What about the Anarchist Black Cross and the Red Crescent?

__________________
A shell, an imp.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 17:19 #
ducon is offline || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
fraggle
Filled with the code of Doom


Posts: 8137
Registered: 07-00



CorSair said:
The sign of red cross or rod of Asclepius always brings sort of comfort for me, even in games.
But it feels awkward for me. Why remove a universal symbol that means items which can aid people from their fatal wounds or cure them? It doesn't make sense for me.

That's not what the Red Cross means. It's actually a sign of protection - that is put on vehicles or people to indicate that they should not be military targets - military chaplains are also allowed to use the symbol for example. Most medical kits in real life actually have a white or green cross, not a red one.

Old Post Dec 15 2012 18:17 #
fraggle is offline Twitter account Youtube Twitch Github || Blog || PM || Post History || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:42. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »  
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom General > Does the Red Cross issue apply to us?

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.