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Archy
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Interesting. Dual plasma would be deadly!

Old Post Mar 30 2013 01:09 #
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Enjay
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That's a neat video. I've seen the models before but not being rotated like the video shows.

I remember back before DoomII came out, details like those in the video started to appear in magazines and so on. There was a lot of discussion and excitement about the new monsters and the seemingly advanced features that some of them were likely to have. It's also interesting to note the things from the video that are incorrect too. Some of these may be down to incorrect assumptions, some down to inaccurate use of terms but some may be down to changed plans at id.

Did I pick up that the archvile was going to resurrect gibbed enemies as lost souls? If that was the plan, it's funny how things worked out: with gibbed enemies resurrecting normally and almost invulnerable "ghosts" from enemies that had been crushed under doors.

Old Post Mar 30 2013 12:03 #
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fraggle
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Great find! Thanks.

Old Post Mar 30 2013 15:00 #
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DoomUK
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Enjay said:
It's also interesting to note the things from the video that are incorrect too.

In the days before the internet was around to get angry about it.

Old Post Mar 30 2013 15:58 #
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Suitepee
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Dual wielding plasma Mancubus would have been interesting opponents.

Also interesting that the Archvile was going to use lightning bolts (instead of its flame pillar) in an early design, or was that one of the incorrect assumptions made in the video?

I also don't recall thinking of Ultimate Doom as "hideously hard" even back then, except maybe E4M2 and E4M6.

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Last edited by Suitepee on Apr 3 2013 at 13:36

Old Post Mar 30 2013 16:42 #
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printz
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Suitepee said:
Dual wielding plasma Mancubus would have been interesting opponents.

Mancubi already dual wield fire shooters. And even if they fired true plasma, they would have been merely Arachnotron substitutes. Snore.

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Old Post Mar 30 2013 17:16 #
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Suitepee
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printz said:
Mancubi already dual wield fire shooters. And even if they fired true plasma, they would have been merely Arachnotron substitutes. Snore.

I guess now that I think about it, the somewhat high 'flinch/pain' rate of the Mancubi would also have made the dual plasma thing somewhat pointless.

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Last edited by Suitepee on Apr 3 2013 at 13:36

Old Post Mar 30 2013 18:02 #
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Waffenak
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That announcer's voice is so cheesy. If I close my eyes I could take timetrip to 90's just by listening that tone of voice even he would be talking about cutting grass. ps. I want that icon of sin sketch to my collection

Old Post Mar 30 2013 21:19 #
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Shadow Hog
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Archviles that hit you with their line-of-sight attack when resurrecting instead of one or the other, and that come back as Lost Souls when they die? Hot damn, that sounds intense. I almost want to see something like that in action :O

Old Post Mar 30 2013 21:34 #
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Enjay
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Suitepee said:
I also don't recall thinking of Ultimate Doom as "hideously hard" even back then, except maybe E4M2 and E4M6.

I don't remember Ultimate Doom being available back before Doom 2 was released. ;)


@Waffenak: Agreed on the announcer's cheesy voice and intonation.

Old Post Mar 31 2013 02:07 #
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BloodyAcid
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I remember someone posting this very video on these forums about a year ago. Thanks for the link anyways.

Old Post Mar 31 2013 03:42 #
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Krispy
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I'm excited for Doom II.

Old Post Mar 31 2013 04:41 #
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Suitepee
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Enjay said:
I don't remember Ultimate Doom being available back before Doom 2 was released. ;)


@Waffenak: Agreed on the announcer's cheesy voice and intonation.

Well to be fair, the first time I played Doom properly was with the 'Doom 95' software that was part of the Maximum Doom collection (it contained Ultimate Doom,Doom 2,Master Levels and Maximum Doom).
So that would have been a few years after the original commerical releases of Doom 1 & 2 I'd imagine.

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Last edited by Suitepee on Apr 3 2013 at 13:36

Old Post Mar 31 2013 12:39 #
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BaronOfStuff
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Suitepee said:
Dual wielding plasma Mancubus would have been interesting opponents.

Only if they repeated in the firing pattern we currently know them for! Imagine that; an 'automatic' Mancubus. Interesting, or potentially OP? Could potentially make toast out of most infighting opponents... ah fuck it, someone make this now! I would, but I am currently too lazy to mess around with a simple DECORATE lump.

Old Post Mar 31 2013 14:47 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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If you load the Doom 2 iwad in the 1.6 beta engine, you kind of see where they got some of these ideas. The mancubus uses Baron of Hell projectiles as a placeholder and the arch-vile flames use the BFG impact (wouldn't really call it lightning myself), but most interestingly the arachnotron has a chaingun.

I wonder if the ghost monster bug came about directly as a result of cutting gibs getting revived as lost souls. I've never tried getting Doom 2 to load in any of the older engines (support was there as far back as 1.3, but only 1.6 can load it without modification), to see if that behavior is still in.

Old Post Mar 31 2013 18:51 #
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Archy
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Dragonsbrethren said:
If you load the Doom 2 iwad in the 1.6 beta engine...

Wow, I'm unaware of what you speak off. Mind sending a link?

Old Post Mar 31 2013 19:09 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Download this:

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=647

Copy doom2.wad and the full version of doom.wad (needed for music) whereever you install it, run it with this commandline:
code:
doom -file doom2.wad doom.wad
Some maps won't load because they use things that haven't been implemented yet, like the Wolfenstein stuff, final boss, megasphere, etc. Killing an arachnotron will crash the game because the beta engine expects them to have another sprite (guessing they originally exploded like the mastermind).

Old Post Mar 31 2013 19:26 #
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Archy
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I think you mean:
code:
doom -file doom.wad doom2.wad
but thanks!

Old Post Mar 31 2013 19:31 #
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Enjay
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Dragonsbrethren said:
but most interestingly the arachnotron has a chaingun.

If you look closely at the arachnotron on the back of the Doom2 box, you can actually see that he has a chaingun rather than a plasma gun. Presumably it's an early screenshot and the sprites were modified to look more plasma gun-like after the decision was taken to change their weapon.

Old Post Mar 31 2013 20:32 #
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Quasar
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Enjay said:
If you look closely at the arachnotron on the back of the Doom2 box, you can actually see that he has a chaingun rather than a plasma gun. Presumably it's an early screenshot and the sprites were modified to look more plasma gun-like after the decision was taken to change their weapon.

I have a series of these shots in which you can see most of the beta qualities in action, including the baron-plasma-shooting mancubi, pain elementals belching cacodemon fireballs (only a placeholder action directly copied from the caco, I guess), and arachnotrons that look exactly like poorly scaled down spiderdemons, chaingun and all (none of the touch-ups had been done yet at all).

I understand revenants also visibly jump up into the air when they do their attack, as apparently their action is miscoded to either give them momentum, or forgets to reset their z to the floor (the final version of the code is hacked to set their z higher only during the call to P_SpawnMissile).

Old Post Mar 31 2013 22:23 #
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