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Doomhuntress
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given Hell has the technology of teleportation, i'd guess the skull keys are just regular skulls, painted, with either the eyes or the teeth of it programmed to unlock doors and access switches. that'd explain why some of the skulls work on UAC doors: stolen data, which they've used on the skulls to gain access throughout their network of stations and complexes.

Old Post Aug 31 2013 14:33 #
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Quasar
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Doomhuntress said:
stolen data, which they've used on the skulls to gain access throughout their network of stations and complexes.

Stolen by VIOS, no doubt :P Never MALLOC! :P

Old Post Sep 1 2013 15:26 #
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com_tam_fan
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Maybe there are magnets or infrared emitters inside the skulls that the doors detect.

Old Post Sep 8 2013 05:15 #
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rf`
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Doomguy smashes the door with them until it yields from sheer fear.

Old Post Sep 8 2013 06:31 #
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GreyGhost
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Don't need a key...



...keys are for WUSSES!

Old Post Sep 8 2013 11:23 #
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joe-ilya
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GreyGhost said:
Don't need a key...



...keys are for WUSSES!

You just broke the doom engine.

Old Post Sep 12 2013 17:26 #
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Splatter
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They're meaningless baubles. The true key was in Doomguy's heart all along!

Old Post Sep 12 2013 22:08 #
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schwerpunk
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Splatter said:
They're meaningless baubles. The true key was in Doomguy's heart all along!

I like this because it makes me feel good and is funny and sappy.

Old Post Sep 13 2013 00:27 #
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Platinum Shell
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schwerpunk said:
I like this because it makes me feel good and is funny and sappy.

The piss

you took it

Old Post Sep 13 2013 00:46 #
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schwerpunk
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I was actually being genuine, I just couldn't find a succinct way to express my approval that didn't sound sarcastic. Also, I've been playing Bookworm Adventure, which has kind of weirded up the way I process words for some strange reason. :S

Old Post Sep 13 2013 05:33 #
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Doominer991
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Captain Toenail said:
The clash and mingling of science and the occult is one of the best themes of Doom, of course there's magic. The rules of physics as we know it don't necessarily apply to the Hell dimension, it's science fiction after all.

If the pentagrams, black candles and the Arch Vile's mock-crucifixion pose don't scream black magic (let alone all the other cheesy 90's satanic imagery) then I don't know what to say.

Science fiction doesn't include magic as one of it's concepts.

What's to say that pentagrams aren't the demons "mark" as if for them to say "This place belongs to us."? If the game had Nazi's attacking Phobos, I'd think it would be like Doom if all the pentagrams were replaced with swastikas.

Old Post Sep 14 2013 02:02 #
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schwerpunk
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Science fiction so does include magical elements from a lore perspective. The exception being 'hard' sci-fi, which Doom most definitely isn't.

Old Post Sep 14 2013 04:29 #
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Gez
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Doominer991 said:
Science fiction doesn't include magic as one of its concepts.

Doesn't preclude it magic either.

Heck, one of the most popular science fiction franchises of all time is basically the bastard child of heroic fantasy and space opera. You have knights, princesses, magical swords handed down from father to son, and an evil wizard-king who shoots lighting from his fingertips.

Doominer991 said:
What's to say that pentagrams aren't the demons "mark" as if for them to say "This place belongs to us."? If the game had Nazi's attacking Phobos, I'd think it would be like Doom if all the pentagrams were replaced with swastikas.

And instead of having a very varied (including visually) cast of enemies, the foes would be a bunch of humans in uniforms only distinguished by the weapons they use.

Booooooooooorrrrriiiiiinnnnnnnnnng.

Flying gasbags that shoot flaming skulls, emaciated wizards that incinerate you and resurrect defeated monsters, various monsters that throw fireballs from their clawed hands, now you're talking.

You cannot make Doom without magic. How are you going to justify the slow, easily dodgeable projectiles? Imp fireballs aren't something that would make sense for a human to have. It's a lousy weapon. Even the rockets and plasma are kinda slow, but they're still faster and deal more damage. A human equipped with an imp-fireball weapon is dumb, they'd be better off grabbing one of the shotguns that can be found everywhere in the levels. A robot built with an imp-fireball weapon is a serious design flaw and waste of expensive component. A demon that just (super)naturally happens to have it as a power, though? You can't object to it. It doesn't strain suspension of disbelief that they would have the ability to throw small fireballs that travel slowly and aren't affected by gravity or dissipate after a while: it's magic and they're demons.

Look at the cast of Wolfenstein (which isn't exactly hard-scifi either): dogs, humans with pistols, humans with machine guns, beefy humans with chainguns and/or rocket launchers. Also Hitler decoys with flamethrowers, which are probably the most interesting monsters in the game just because they're a bit different. (Though they are completely bugged.)

Magic allowed the designers to go hog-wild on creative monster designs and interesting attack styles. Not a hitscan galore like a "realistic" game would have been.

Old Post Sep 14 2013 11:44 #
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Doominer991
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Gez said:
Doesn't preclude it magic either.

Heck, one of the most popular science fiction franchises of all time is basically the bastard child of heroic fantasy and space opera. You have knights, princesses, magical swords handed down from father to son, and an evil wizard-king who shoots lighting from his fingertips.


And instead of having a very varied (including visually) cast of enemies, the foes would be a bunch of humans in uniforms only distinguished by the weapons they use.

Booooooooooorrrrriiiiiinnnnnnnnnng.

Flying gasbags that shoot flaming skulls, emaciated wizards that incinerate you and resurrect defeated monsters, various monsters that throw fireballs from their clawed hands, now you're talking.

You cannot make Doom without magic. How are you going to justify the slow, easily dodgeable projectiles? Imp fireballs aren't something that would make sense for a human to have. It's a lousy weapon. Even the rockets and plasma are kinda slow, but they're still faster and deal more damage. A human equipped with an imp-fireball weapon is dumb, they'd be better off grabbing one of the shotguns that can be found everywhere in the levels. A robot built with an imp-fireball weapon is a serious design flaw and waste of expensive component. A demon that just (super)naturally happens to have it as a power, though? You can't object to it. It doesn't strain suspension of disbelief that they would have the ability to throw small fireballs that travel slowly and aren't affected by gravity or dissipate after a while: it's magic and they're demons.

Look at the cast of Wolfenstein (which isn't exactly hard-scifi either): dogs, humans with pistols, humans with machine guns, beefy humans with chainguns and/or rocket launchers. Also Hitler decoys with flamethrowers, which are probably the most interesting monsters in the game just because they're a bit different. (Though they are completely bugged.)

Magic allowed the designers to go hog-wild on creative monster designs and interesting attack styles. Not a hitscan galore like a "realistic" game would have been.

That goes WAY beyond the point I was trying to make, all I'm saying is that the pentagrams could just be a way of saying the demons own the place.

And besides, you could create science fiction style ways to explain how they can do all that,(I made a post containing my explanations of how I think everthing works) even if it isn't realistic. If I want to play a game about magic, I'd play Heretic or Hexen.

Old Post Sep 15 2013 00:34 #
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Eris Falling
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The Doom Bible said:
Then (the demons) spread out through the airducts and possessing sleeping people with magic.

Later Troops (Imps) cast magic.


The Doom II manual on the Arch-Vile
casts spells
I really don't get why you're trying so hard to deny that magic is present in Doom.

Old Post Sep 15 2013 00:54 #
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Doominer991
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Eris Falling said:
I really don't get why you're trying so hard to deny that magic is present in Doom.

Because it's my opinion, even if the contrary is more likely.

Besides, those first examples don't really apply because they're from back when Doom wasn't anything like Doom today.

Last edited by Doominer991 on Sep 15 2013 at 06:21

Old Post Sep 15 2013 01:15 #
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Janus3003
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Gez said:
Heck, one of the most popular science fiction franchises of all time is basically the bastard child of heroic fantasy and space opera. You have knights, princesses, magical swords handed down from father to son, and an evil wizard-king who shoots lighting from his fingertips.

Nah, that's not magic at all. See, they have things called "midi-chlorians" in their blood that let th- OH GOSH *gets lynched*

Old Post Sep 19 2013 01:35 #
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GreyGhost
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Doominer991 said:
Besides, those first examples don't really apply because they're from back when Doom wasn't anything like Doom today.

What about the spaceship in TNT: Evilution?

From the manual:
It was huge, kilometers long, and was built of bone, steel, flesh, corruption and death.
It was a bio-mechano-magical construct from the depths of Hell
In the Plutonia Experiment the demons are engaged in some sort of ritual when Doomguy turn up.

From the manual again:
When you arrived, flashes of light, howls, and chanting could be heard from the interior...
...Obviously the Gatekeeper was doing something inside - something that would soon reach some kind of awful climax.
You mightn't like the idea of magic in a sci-fi game, but it's there.

Old Post Sep 19 2013 04:37 #
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Doominer991
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GreyGhost said:
What about the spaceship in TNT: Evilution?

In the Plutonia Experiment the demons are engaged in some sort of ritual when Doomguy turn up.
You mightn't like the idea of magic in a sci-fi game, but it's there.

Maybe that was just a metaphor, to emphasize how completely alien it is.

How do we know that the "ritual" wasn't just the absolute chaos and unpredictable behavior of the demons? Or they could have been having a rave.

Old Post Sep 19 2013 17:48 #
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Doominator2
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Relic said:
It's just gotta be magic, maybe the doomguy is part demon?

. Of course have you ever seen his golden demon eyes with the magic of if Iddqd?

Old Post Oct 31 2013 03:07 #
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Crasger
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I find it strange that the doors in Doom don't have slots or buttons.
but when you touch them, they magically go upwards. But going back to the topic, Skull Keys are probably regular keycards, but the demons started biting them in their spare time...

Old Post Oct 31 2013 15:53 #
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Quasar
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I am so sick of these "the demons aren't demons" threads. Go play Halo if you hate the Satanic black magic themes in Doom so much.

Old Post Oct 31 2013 16:08 #
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Crasger
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Well, then there's the possibility that Satanic magic can open doors using skulls...

Old Post Oct 31 2013 16:29 #
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Doominer991
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Quasar said:
I am so sick of these "the demons aren't demons" threads. Go play Halo if you hate the Satanic black magic themes in Doom so much.

I'm not claiming that demons aren't demons, I'm saying they aren't supernatural.

Old Post Nov 1 2013 17:28 #
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BaronOfStuff
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Doominer991 said:
I'm not claiming that demons aren't demons, I'm saying they aren't supernatural.


And you're WRONG. They're supernatural. Skullkeys are magic. This topic is going around in circles.

Old Post Nov 1 2013 18:22 #
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Eris Falling
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Backing up BoS's post:

Supernatural - Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
synonyms include "Paranormal"

A demon or daemon is a paranormal, often malevolent being prevalent in religion, occultism, literature, fiction, and folklore.

Old Post Nov 1 2013 18:29 #
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Da Werecat
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Doominer991 said:
I'm not claiming that demons aren't demons, I'm saying they aren't supernatural.

What's the difference?

Old Post Nov 1 2013 18:29 #
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Doominer991
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BaronOfStuff said:
And you're WRONG. They're supernatural. Skullkeys are magic. This topic is going around in circles.

This is FICTION. The definition of demons doesn't have to be that they are supernatural in fictionland.

Old Post Nov 1 2013 18:37 #
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Eris Falling
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Doominer991 said:
This is FICTION. The definition of demons doesn't have to be that they are supernatural in fictionland.

A demon or daemon is a paranormal in...fiction.

Demons, in all fiction, are supernatural beings. If they aren't supernatural/paranormal, they aren't demons.
The only way around this is if something believed to be a demon is revealed to be a natural being DURING the story of a piece of fiction. That's clearly not the case with Doom, and you actually fucking TRAVEL to a supernatural realm anyway.

Old Post Nov 1 2013 18:41 #
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Da Werecat
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Looks like he really, really wants Doom to be devoid of magic. I don't think that anything can (or even should) be done about it.

Old Post Nov 1 2013 18:49 #
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