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Clonehunter
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Okay, so I'm starting work on a school assignment related to JavaScript where the idea/objective is to counter specific Demons with the weapon that handles them most effectively. So I'm searching for Data in other words and other inputs in order to make the project seem vaguely authentic.

Personally, I've found that:

Chainsaw -> Zombieman
Pistol -> Zombieman, Shotgun Guy
Shotgun -> Zombieman, Shotgun Guy, Imp, Chaingun Guy
Super Shotgun -> Demon, Hellknight, Revenant
Rocket Launcher -> Baron, Mancubus (And I'd assume Arachnotron, though as far as I can remember, I've never actually combatted them with a RL)
Plasma Gun -> Arachnotron (Yah, I know)
BFG -> CyberDemon, Spider Mastermind, Arch-Vile (Maybe Overkill, but I don't care

Other opinions then? What have been your best choices for certain monsters, for when you're not solely relying on the SG or SSG for an entire playthrough?

Old Post 12-05-13 17:31 #
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joe-ilya
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Berserk fist -> Cyberdemon ass, demons, imps, zombiemans, shotgun guys, chainguners, nazis, commander keens, romeros head, your own voodoo doll.
pistol -> zombiemans(fight fire with fire), finishing off monsters
chainsaw -> zombiemans, commander keens
shotgun -> imps, zombiemans, shotgun guys(fight fire with fire), nazis, close chaingunners.
SSG -> 2good2live
RL -> cacos, mancubi, arachtrons, IOS
PG\R -> barons, nazis
BFG9000 -> cybers, SMMs, huge gangs, AVs

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Old Post 12-05-13 17:46 #
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Jayextee
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SSG -> *.*

Shit's broken yo. Game plays itself.

Old Post 12-05-13 17:50 #
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Shadow Hog
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I think the reverse would be better, actually. This is how my playstyle tends to go:

  • Former Human: Pistol or shotgun; leaning toward pistol.
  • Former Sergeant: Pitsol or shotgun; leaning toward shotgun.
  • Former Commando: Shotgun.
  • Imp: Pistol or shotgun; leaning toward shotgun.
  • Demon/Spectre: SSG takes one shot. SG takes 2-3, failing that.
  • Lost Soul: Shotgun or SSG.
  • Cacodemon: Chaingun easily stun-locks them, so it's a better choice than the SSG.
  • Hell Knight: SSG if you can get close range, rocket launcher otherwise.
  • Baron of Hell: RL if you can keep your distance, SSG otherwise.
  • Arachnotron: RL, preferably. SSG, failing that. I forget if the Chaingun is good at stun-locking them or not.
  • Pain Elemental: SSG if I can stand right in their face so that they can't spawn Lost Souls. If I can't, Chaingun to stun-lock them like Cacodemons.
  • Revenant: SSG. Chaingun doesn't stun-lock them consistently enough to be worth it, and they have an annoying habit of evading my rockets.
  • Mancubus: RL, preferably; SSG or Chaingun, failing that. Stun-lock isn't very consistent but it's just high enough that either are a pretty good option.
  • Archvile: SSG if I can hide well enough. RL if it's far away. BFG if I really can't afford a fight with one.
  • Spider Mastermind: BFG or Plasma.
  • Cyberdemon: BFG or Plasma.

I don't use the Plasma Gun much; I really should figure out the correct situations in which to use it, one of these days. I tend to just save its ammo for the BFG, instead.

Old Post 12-05-13 18:43 #
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Getsu Fune
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Multiple demons/spectres almost certainly requires the rocket launcher only.

Pretty much everyone else can be downed with the SSG, plasma gun, or BFG9000, depending on the area I'm fighting in.

Oh, and crushers.

Old Post 12-05-13 19:02 #
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MFG38
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I've found that the SSG is basically an all-purpose killing tool. I actually use any other weapons relatively rarely compared to the SSG.

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Old Post 12-05-13 19:08 #
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Clonehunter
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Shadow Hog said:

I don't use the Plasma Gun much; I really should figure out the correct situations in which to use it, one of these days. I tend to just save its ammo for the BFG, instead.



Admittedly I don't use it much either. I mean, I can see it being useful against Cacos and others that need to be stun locked, but I find that once I have the BFG, I rarely, if ever, use the PG. The only time I actually use it against Arachnotrons is during Dead Simple once I down the Mancs. Otherwise I'll actually get close and SSG them to death, as suicidal as it may seem in regards to having to get close to them.

Old Post 12-05-13 19:57 #
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Zed
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Clonehunter said:
Okay, so I'm starting work on a school assignment related to JavaScript where the idea/objective is to counter specific Demons with the weapon that handles them most effectively. So I'm searching for Data in other words and other inputs in order to make the project seem vaguely authentic.


You might find this thread useful. You might also want to take a look at the "Tactical Analysis" section for individual monsters and weapons in the Doom Wiki.

Having said that, when you talk about "counter specific Demons with the weapon that handles them most effectively", are you talking about assigning one weapon to a specific monster, so you can only kill it with that weapon, for example, or are you referring to one's own opinions/preferences, like in the thread I linked above?

Old Post 12-05-13 20:04 #
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HK!D
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MFG38 said:
I've found that the SSG is basically an all-purpose killing tool. I actually use any other weapons relatively rarely compared to the SSG.


Yes, but what kinds of ammunition wads give me can change that. It gets expensive spending two shells on one Zombieman sometimes.

Old Post 12-05-13 20:51 #
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Antroid
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I like whipping out a chainsaw against both tomatoes and rotten tomatoes when it's safe enough from other hazards.

Old Post 12-05-13 21:45 #
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Luke Dacote
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I'm surprised no one mentioned how useful a chainsaw is against the demon/spectres/pinkies. Yeah it's a little slow but they can't harm you while you do this and it saves ammo. Plus since they're such a big target, they're easier to hit than the zombies. Doing this in Doom 64 is even more satisfying since the chainsaw is more powerful thus its quicker to kill a horde of them in a matter of seconds.

I also find using the chainsaw on lost souls to be quite handy at the right moments.

Old Post 12-05-13 22:41 #
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CorSair
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Rocket Launcher is your solution to everything.

Old Post 12-05-13 22:48 #
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Scottland89
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For me I, when faced with the following monsters, I used the corresponding weapons (and why):

Former Human, Former Human Sergeant, and imp - Shotgun (pistol at as a fall back, or berserk punches if I have enough health and not too many of them). Shotgun drops them in 1 shot at nearly all ranges, and with Former Human Sergeants, it is a profit of 3 shells! Berserker punch takes them out in 1

Heavy weapons dude: Shotgun, SSG or Chaingun Up close SSG due to 1 shot, 1 kill from it. Shotgun or chaingun at a distance.

Demon & Spector - Chainsaw, Chaingun or SSG (or berserk punches). Chainsaw is a great ammo saver as if you face a group of them, back into a corner\choke point and just hold down fire, it surpass their pain threshold so they can't attack. You may get hit once if a bit sloppy when doing this but it's a rare case. Chaingun is the same but can be done at range as well, but limited. SSG drops them in 1 on a clean hit, otherwise 2 so a great quick solution. Berserker punch takes them out in 1 so a nice chainsaw alternative.

Cacodemon and Pain Element - Chaingun, plasma, SSG, rocket. Chaingun easily helps surpass it's pain threshold so can keep it at bay without attacking. Ditto for Plasma but ammo is a bit more valuable. SSG is a great upclose solution but you want to keep them at bay. Rocket is a great distance "get rid of it" solution, but the ammo could be put at better use.

Lost soul - Shotgun and Chaingun. Letting it charge at you and hitting it with a shotgun at close range is a favourite tactic of mine. This also gives a bit of extra breathing room. Chaingun is a good way to clear loads at a time.

Barron of Hell and Hell Knight - SSG or plasma. Whatever I have at hand and can take them down quickly. Plasma might be better suited for packs of monsters including them, SSG for 1 v 1 duels with them.

Revenant, Mancubus and Arachnotron - Chaingun, SSG or Plasma (Rockets at major distance). Chaingun does a good job making them flinch most of the time but they do get the ocational shot out and it hurts when they do. SSG is a great up close solution but if faced in packs, need to be quick and lucky. Plasma same as chaingun minus the occasional. shot issue.

Arch-vile - KILL IT! KILL IT WITH PLASMA! Seriously, it stuns it as it surpases the pain threshold. SSG is a good alternative but if I have the cells, plasma will be my number 1 choice for them, every time.

SS Guards- Think Shotgun due to same reasons as Former humans, but can't remember.

Cyberdemon - Rocket, Plasma or BFG - Either work cool. BFG if in packs, otherwise just whatever I feel like.

Spider mastermind - BFG or Rocket - Chaingun makes plasma gun too painful, so need a good fire and forget option, but gotta prefire the bfg to avoid being chewed up.

Commander Keens - Fists. Why the hell not?

Old Post 12-06-13 00:33 #
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sgt dopey
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Zombieman - shotgun
Shotgun guy - shotgun
Chaingunner - Rocketlauncher, BFG
Demon/Spectre - Shotgun, SSG
Lost soul - shotgun
Cacodemon - SSG
Pain Elemental - SSG
Revenant - BFG, Rocketlauncher,SSG
Mancubus - SSG
Arch Vile - BFG
Arachnotron - SSG
Spider Mastermind - BFG
Cyberdemon - BFG
Commander Keen - Fists
Icon of Sin/nohJ omeroR - Fists, Rocket launcher
Player - Rocket Launcher

Old Post 12-06-13 02:05 #
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bcwood16
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I know this isn't really going to help but one my my favourite techniques is to save up ammo for the BFG. Instead of using it on large creatures like hell knights, masterminds etc I like to use the BFG when I walk into a room full of imps and zombies...its so effective and amusing to just wipe a room out with a single shot. Not only that but seeing them all turn to goo and the blood sticking to walls and ...well just the gory mess is just amazing!! I can never stop finding that amusing. *excellent - Simpsons style*

As for larger creatures I get more satisfaction killing them with lesser weapons....just to be really bad ass!

Old Post 12-06-13 10:06 #
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Maes
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So, it seeems I'm the only one who still enjoys using the chainsaw on Demons/Spectres? I pretty much considered hordes of those to be an "interlude" for whatever map they were part of: they swarm everything, block all lines of fire and run very rapidly all around (essentially disrupting up any other fights).

So what you do? Retreat to a corner/chokepoint, get out the good ol' Eager Beaver, and grind some meat. 5, 10, 20 or 100 demons, just be patient and grind. Is this considered too 1994 perhaps? Well what can I say, I'm oldschool all the way, yo. Berserk pack works well, too, but doesn't feel as oldschool, for some reason.

Edit: Only now I saw Scottland89's post. So at least I'm not alone in that

By the way, Hell Revealed notoriously averts that by avoiding giving the player a chainsaw on early stages (or at all?), and only when you're supposed to battle hordes of Pinkies it gives a Berserk pack, sooner or later. But no permanent chainsaw.

Other than the obvious weapon choices, I usually use them as follows:


  • Chainsaw -> as above, but I sometimes use it against Revenants at CQ, as it prevents them from firing one of their 80 HP fireballs. Occasionally even against cacos, LS and PEs if they are at ground level.
  • Pistol -> for ammo-saving "plinking" in Jodwin maps, when you absolutely can't waste an even number bullets if an odd one would do the job.
  • Shotgun -> medium-distance fighting against zombies, imps and even revenants, when a SSG would waste too many pellets. Good for "shotgun sniping" too.
  • SSG -> anything, if it's to be fought at CQ or open field with room to dodge/circlestrafe and occasionally cover (if against SM and AV).
  • CG -> Excellent "sniping" weapon, with the tapping trick. Keeps single revenants, cacos, PEs etc. at bay, and is good for weakening stronger monsters through a safe shooting spot, e.g. a cyberdemon's sticking head ;-)
  • RL -> good against hordes of anything, same conditions as SSG but with the necessary ability to put more distance between you and the enemy hordes. Also, sometimes when I want to rampage through a techbase-like map quickly and it's far too generous with RL ammo, I use that instead of hitscan weaponry. Risky, but TONS of fun ;-)
  • PL -> Kinda gimmicky weapon, IMO. If used as a "straight shooter", it just wastes too much ammo. However, it's unbeatable if you're caught in a 1-on-1 with a tough monster such as a Baron at CQ, and none of the other weapons would kill it quickly or safely enough (and you don't have a BFG). Also good for weaving "fire barriers" around you.
  • BFG -> Well, as long as you can afford the ammo it will kill almost anything reliably and quickly, in CQ or open field, so nothing to say there. The only situation it might not be useful is when you have to reach certain enemies behind pillars/small windows, because then you rely exclusively on the tracers. Also, there are some situations where the delayed big ball explosion might prevent you from using the full power of the weapon e.g. if you have to expose yourself to AV fire for too long in order to direct the tracers). In that case, you better resort to RL or PL.

Old Post 12-06-13 11:12 #
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Memfis
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Maes said:
So what you do? Retreat to a corner/chokepoint, get out the good ol' Eager Beaver, and grind some meat. 5, 10, 20 or 100 demons, just be patient and grind. Is this considered too 1994 perhaps? Well what can I say, I'm oldschool all the way, yo. Berserk pack works well, too, but doesn't feel as oldschool, for some reason.

Eternal once made a map where at the start you have to chainsaw about 100 pinkies and sent it to some friends. Everyone fucking hated it and he was like "eh, you guys don't understand what old-school Dooming is about". I kinda thought he was just joking but now I know that people who enjoy such things really exist. Wow...

Old Post 12-06-13 11:21 #
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Kotzugi
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BFG is the most effective in all cases. Instead what you should be looking at is what ammo you have available. That might make things a little tricky for your script. Even then you're still ignoring other factors such as how the monsters are grouped together (zombies in a cluster are most effectively dispatched by SSG (assuming non-availability of RL, Plasma Gun or BFG), while more spread out the chaingun does the job better). Berserk punching pinkies is cool but if there are lots of other monsters in the room as well you might want to switch to plasma or something. If you can manage to get a lot of infighting going you can save cells and switch to SSG, etc. Many different factors to consider.

Last edited by Kotzugi on 12-06-13 at 12:34

Old Post 12-06-13 11:44 #
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Maes
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Memfis said:
Eternal once made a map where at the start you have to chainsaw about 100 pinkies and sent it to some friends. Everyone fucking hated it and he was like "eh, you guys don't understand what old-school Dooming is about". I kinda thought he was just joking but now I know that people who enjoy such things really exist. Wow...


You mean perhaps one which was just a grey maze which had nothing BUT pinkies and it was impossible to even move unless you had killed most of them? Well, that borders on jokewad material. I'm talking more about a mapping "cliche" or "trope" present in most 1994 PWAD where there HAD to be at least an area that's flooded with just pinkies/spectres in a map, especially after you picked up a BP/CS. Call it the "obligatory Pinky chainsawing scene". A map just didn't feel complete without the satisfaction of mowing down at least a couple dozens of them Pinkies (or Spectres. In a dark sewer) ;-)

Not even official IWADs are immune from that: e.g. the pinky room in Tricks & Traps, what is it if not a straight play of this "trope"? Ofc you don't HAVE to chainsaw them, but it's more fun and saves ammo if you do ;-)

Old Post 12-06-13 12:18 #
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Memfis
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It was like a serious well designed map but yeah, it started with a scene where you're surrounded by a horde of about 100 pinkies and you get nothing but a chainsaw. If you were patient enough you could get to the "normal" part of the map but I didn't bother, heh.

Old Post 12-06-13 12:30 #
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Maes
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Well, I think Pinky chainsawing falls into a more general category of map tropes that put monsters in situations where they are easy targets such as: monsters stuck on pillars, monsters trapped in small rooms/yards, turkey-shooting windows, etc. having more a decorative or diversion role, rather than posing serious threats.

Pinky sawing is IMO a cheap "comic relief" and ego boost to put in every map: you get to see how stupid/incapable Pinkies are (they basically get in each other's way only to be sawed to death one by one, have a ridiculously delayed attack, they are nearly useless at infighting etc.), and you also get a small ego boost as a Doomer ("Wow, I just killed 100 demons in a row in that small corner! WHO'S A MAN AND A HALF?!").

Even the weakest zombies can be more of a serious threat than pinkies, as there's always the chance that they may plink at your health from a distance.

Old Post 12-06-13 13:53 #
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terminus12
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I'm just posting what I would ideally want to kill them with

zombieman - chaingun, only takes 2 bullets, the continuous spray makes it easy to mow them down quickly when their mass quantities instead of waiting for the shotgun or ssg to reload
shotgun guy - chaingun, same as above
heavy weapon dude - SSG or chaingun, depends on the range
Imps - SG, I feel using the SSG is a waste of an extra shell
Demons/Spectres - SSG, for obvious reasons
Lost Souls - SSG or Chaingun, SSG at close range chaingun for far range
Arachnatrons - SSG or RL
Hell Knight - Same as above
Mancubus - Same as above
Revenant - probably plasma gun this one's tough though I like the chainguns stunning abilities so its tempting to say chaingun as well
Baron of Hell - RL all the way
Arch-Vile - BFG, these fuckers...
Cyberdemon & Spider Mastermind - BFG, for obvious reasons

I never use the pistol unless I it's pretty much necessary, I'll use fists or chainsaw on demons/spectres or imps or zombies if I need to conserve ammo. Plasma gun I use more in like "oh shit I went in a little over my head" moments if you know what I mean, not for specific demons

Old Post 12-06-13 14:01 #
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Kotzugi
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As someone who's done a few UV-Fast runs I can vouch for the fact that pinkies and specters turn into freaking death machines on fast mode. It's funny though that you can still rip them to shreds using the chainsaw. :) (as long as there's not another one gnawing at your butt at the same time)

Old Post 12-06-13 14:06 #
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Xaser
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Fist -> Barrel.
Chainsaw -> Cyberdemon.
BFG -> Single Zombieman.
Telefrag -> Co-op partner.

Every time.

Old Post 12-06-13 15:51 #
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Joe667
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SSG --> EVERYTHING

- up close, the Super Shotgun is 3 times as powerful as a normal Shotgun and about as powerful as a rocket launcher.

Old Post 12-06-13 18:05 #
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Maes
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Xaser said:
BFG -> Single Zombieman.


A friend of mine, when I gibbed a shotgun guy with the BFG, yelled at him "You should be GLAD that you get to die by such an awesome weapon!"

Old Post 12-06-13 18:10 #
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Joe667
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terminus12 said:
I'm just posting what I would ideally want to kill them with

zombieman - chaingun, only takes 2 bullets, the continuous spray makes it easy to mow them down quickly when their mass quantities...




Although if there's 5 or so former humans/former sergeants in a group, you can take 'em all out with the Super Shotgun.
It's harder to do this with chaingunners though, because they have more health (70%, which is 10% more than an imp has).

Old Post 12-06-13 19:06 #
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Clonehunter
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Xaser said:
Fist -> Barrel.
Chainsaw -> Cyberdemon.
BFG -> Single Zombieman.
Telefrag -> Co-op partner.

Every time.



I think I found my project details. DOOM GOLD.

Old Post 12-06-13 23:38 #
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Doominator2
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joe-ilya said:
Berserk fist -> Cyberdemon ass


Not Too sure if Maes is going to like the Idea of a Cyberdemon's ass getting clobbered. :P

Old Post 12-07-13 00:46 #
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Pirx
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i tend to use plasma / bfg rarely (and often too late :p) because i keep thinking i'll need those cells later, and then exit the map still loaded with them.

however, plasma is great for getting out quickly when swarmed by monsters, especially those pesky elementals / souls, or resurrecting viles.

bfg for dispatching bosses quickly via tracers, it does more damage per cell pack than plasma.

ssg is my preferred weapon by far, it's a universal weapon that kills weak and tough monsters alike, plus has the effect of 3 shells at the cost of 2. it's also fun to use because it requires agility, which sets doom's gameplay apart from later, slower games.

chaingun works well against hitscanners, since it stuns them and leaves them less chances to fight back. sergeants have this annoying tendency to shoot immediately when you run into them with your sg / ssg reloading animation almost finished, so the chaingun is often a safer solution here.

rockets work best against everything tightly packed or farther away.

i prefer berserk over chainsaw because i find dodging around an enemy more interesting than the steadier approach with the chainsaw. the saw is suicidal against knights / barons, but keeps cacos / revs better from firing the occasional shot when you're fisting them.



Maes said:

Even the weakest zombies can be more of a serious threat than pinkies, as there's always the chance that they may plink at your health from a distance.



sure, but they can trap you, and they eat ammo. also, spectres when you're using rockets.

i like that jumping pinky variant, i think i saw it first in cheogsh.wad when i had picked up a berserk pack, thought "lol, some pinkies", and then one landed in my face.

Old Post 12-07-13 05:04 #
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