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TruGamingReloadedYT
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I read in a thread that the BFG ones were censored,
how was it censored? It seemed the same when I played on my 360?

Old Post 03-15-14 06:11 #
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Shadow Hog
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Red crosses on health packs were changed into pills for legal reasons.

Wolfenstein stages had ALL decorative patches on the textures removed, and each Schutzstaffel was replaced with, like, 4 pistol zombiemen. Music for both stages was changed to D_DOOM.

Old Post 03-15-14 06:16 #
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TruGamingReloadedYT
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Why would they do that OUTSIDE of Germany? There was a version without that stuff in Germany, or is it that Bethesda wants it to be in every country (Except a few) and they don't want trouble? damn Censorship (Doom 2 Version BTW)

Old Post 03-15-14 06:21 #
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Sodaholic
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TruGamingReloadedYT said:
Why would they do that OUTSIDE of Germany?
Because it's easier to distribute one set of content and also synch online multiplayer games between Germany and other countries. Unfortunately, on the 360 version, you can connect to people using the uncensored 360 XBLA to the BFG version of Doom 2, which causes desynchs on the secret maps.

Also, how enforceable is the Red Cross's bullshit? It really shouldn't apply to art, or even news media, if the subject is the Red Cross itself. People can tell the difference between some weird sci-fi silver box with a glowing red cross in a video game to an actual first-aid kit from the real Red Cross foundation, there's no reason to censor games.

So long as it doesn't actually say "Red Cross". Even then, what if it was a nonfiction game, and there actually were Red Cross people and equipment at the historical scene?

Old Post 03-15-14 06:39 #
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Patrol1985
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I don't really mind pill symbols replacing crosses, but "nazi stuff" censoring is horrible. The whole point of those secret levels was to pay homage to Wolfenstein. Right now, those are just "two random maps" and one might ponder why, of all the levels, THOSE were made the secret ones. Without context, the whole "secret" thing makes no sense.

Old Post 03-15-14 09:29 #
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Enjay
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Patrol1985 said:
Right now, those are just "two random maps"

Indeed. And without the context, they are pretty uninteresting, flat, orthogonal maps at that.

Old Post 03-15-14 09:42 #
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Gez
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I can't say I understand why they even censored the music tracks. It's not like they used the Horst Wessel Lied in these secret levels.

Old Post 03-15-14 10:00 #
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Graf Zahl
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What I don't get is the extent of the censorship.

- There was no need to replace the soldier sprites, changing the sounds would have been enough - it's not like the cartoonish blue uniforms resemble anything from the Nazi era.

- why completely remove all the wall decorations, they could have replaced them with some that just got the Nazi symbols removed.

- and of course the music.

I think it would have been a better option to completely disable these levels. As they are they are a complete waste of time.

Old Post 03-15-14 10:57 #
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MFG38
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Graf Zahl said:
What I don't get is the extent of the censorship.

- There was no need to replace the soldier sprites, changing the sounds would have been enough - it's not like the cartoonish blue uniforms resemble anything from the Nazi era.

- why completely remove all the wall decorations, they could have replaced them with some that just got the Nazi symbols removed.

- and of course the music.

I think it would have been a better option to completely disable these levels. As they are they are a complete waste of time.



Exactly. Changing the music in the maps is what baffles me beyond belief. What, did they think Germans would get pissed off for, say, "Ultimate Challenge" sounding like the national anthem of Nazi Germany, which seems just about as unlikely as the existence of unicorns?

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Old Post 03-15-14 11:34 #
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Patrol1985
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Graf Zahl said:
I think it would have been a better option to completely disable these levels. As they are they are a complete waste of time.


I agree. This would also solve the problem of compatibility issues (meaning that the game would probably just crash if two different versions tried to connect... problem solved :P)

Old Post 03-15-14 11:56 #
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Avoozl
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One difference I can think of is the fact that I didn't buy the BFG version. :)

Old Post 03-15-14 12:08 #
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Patrol1985
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I bought it and I don't regret it. It was during a -75% discount on Steam and I did it mainly with "No Rest for the Living" / "Lost Mission" in mind. The new content was definitely fun. It's just that it could have been better with uncensored content and mod support for Doom 3.

Old Post 03-15-14 12:16 #
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Rampage470
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You do realize the 'lost mission' was just a couple rahashed maps from the original Doom 3, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1nKtRH4xE

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Old Post 03-15-14 14:02 #
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40oz
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Graf Zahl said:
What I don't get is the extent of the censorship.

- There was no need to replace the soldier sprites, changing the sounds would have been enough - it's not like the cartoonish blue uniforms resemble anything from the Nazi era.



I was going to address that people would see the juxtaposed soldiers in a game about killing monsters from hell and inquire about it, in which someone or Google would say they're from wolfenstein 3d, a scifi game about killing nazis for an embellished fictional plot, but the silly textures and awful level designs (compared to doom) do that too and your bottom line suggestion would have fixed just that.

Old Post 03-15-14 14:15 #
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Quasar
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I believe the answer is in how German law is written. Works are indexed and "confiscated" by name. So all of the content in Wolfenstein-3D is considered illegal in Germany due to it being on that list. That could mean including any of it in Doom would make Doom subject to the same. That's what my understanding is, anyway.

It's a little tiresome watching one country with a stick up its arse manage to enforce censorship over the entire world. The irony of banning a game where you shoot Nazis for having Nazi symbols in it is pretty thick if you ask me. Basically amounts to an unintentional defense of Nazi ideology.


Rampage470 said:
You do realize the 'lost mission' was just a couple rahashed maps from the original Doom 3, right?


You couldn't possibly be more incorrect; I'm kinda fed up with hearing that over and over. Some rooms were reused. There are NO maps that are reused. Not much more room reuse was done in this mod than was done in RoE, where virtually nobody complained about it. The new levels play very well, and work together very well as a traditional episode-sized mod. I had a lot of fun playing it. The two entirely new Hell levels alone are brilliant.

Old Post 03-15-14 15:27 #
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Patrol1985
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Rampage470 said:
You do realize the 'lost mission' was just a couple rahashed maps from the original Doom 3, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1nKtRH4xE



Ha! Were it not for this video I never would have noticed to be honest. Sure, I could see similarities, but it's sort of obvious when you're running around the same facility. Even if a number of elements was reused, the gameplay was a lot better, because I could actually SEE something instead of going through the darkness all the time.

Lost Mission gave me no more and no less than I had expected sans the boss fight (they really should have made an effort and added a new boss instead of using the old model again). All in all I enjoyed it.

Last edited by Patrol1985 on 03-15-14 at 15:35

Old Post 03-15-14 15:27 #
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Gez
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Quasar said:
I believe the answer is in how German law is written. Works are indexed and "confiscated" by name. So all of the content in Wolfenstein-3D is considered illegal in Germany due to it being on that list. That could mean including any of it in Doom would make Doom subject to the same. That's what my understanding is, anyway.


However, the two music tracks are not Wolfenstein content, since they are MIDI and not IMF. Even if you play them in OPL, they don't sound precisely like the Wolfenstein IMF tunes.

Old Post 03-15-14 16:15 #
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TruGamingReloadedYT
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The song didn't sound even Nazi-ish, the soldiers barely look like Nazis, the other SS monsters are replaced with demons (German Shepherd by Demon and one of the Grooses with a Cyberdemon) the sounds could've been replaced with no-german language

Old Post 03-15-14 16:56 #
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Nomad
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Quasar said:
It's a little tiresome watching one country with a stick up its arse manage to enforce censorship over the entire world. The irony of banning a game where you shoot Nazis for having Nazi symbols in it is pretty thick if you ask me. Basically amounts to an unintentional defense of Nazi ideology.


Ha! Good point. Maybe you're on to something. Germany's economy is doing pretty well lately, has anyone checked on the Jewish folks in a while?

Old Post 03-15-14 17:08 #
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Blzut3
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Quasar said:
I believe the answer is in how German law is written. Works are indexed and "confiscated" by name. So all of the content in Wolfenstein-3D is considered illegal in Germany due to it being on that list. That could mean including any of it in Doom would make Doom subject to the same. That's what my understanding is, anyway.


Good thing they removed all of the content then. :P There's still technically Jaguar Wolf3D content in there.

IIRC the GBA version of Doom 2 had the nazi stuff removed to sell one version to all regions, but was done by replacing the nazi symbols to RTCW art. (Blue SS guards in tact!)

Old Post 03-15-14 17:52 #
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Quasar
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Blzut3 said:

Good thing they removed all of the content then. :P There's still technically Jaguar Wolf3D content in there.

IIRC the GBA version of Doom 2 had the nazi stuff removed to sell one version to all regions, but was done by replacing the nazi symbols to RTCW art. (Blue SS guards in tact!)


True. Who can pretend to comprehend Bethesda's lawyers, though. We're talking about the company that sued the Minecraft guy for using the word "Scrolls". Yeah...

Old Post 03-15-14 19:36 #
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Sodaholic
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They should've used SNES Wolf 3D sounds, and edited the textures to have the same changes as the SNES version too. Maybe I'll make a PWAD like that.

EDIT: Made it.

Last edited by Sodaholic on 03-16-14 at 00:05

Old Post 03-15-14 19:36 #
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Rampage470
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Patrol1985 said:


Ha! Were it not for this video I never would have noticed to be honest. Sure, I could see similarities, but it's sort of obvious when you're running around the same facility. Even if a number of elements was reused, the gameplay was a lot better, because I could actually SEE something instead of going through the darkness all the time.

Lost Mission gave me no more and no less than I had expected sans the boss fight (they really should have made an effort and added a new boss instead of using the old model again). All in all I enjoyed it.



But wait, there's more!

http://imgur.com/a/7OtEo

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Old Post 03-16-14 02:28 #
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Da Werecat
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The funniest examples are those where even blood splats, crates and such are the same. I don't remember such blatant copy/paste in RoE.

But to say that entire maps were reused would be a bit of a stretch.

Old Post 03-16-14 02:39 #
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Avoozl
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All that was re-used were the prefabs intended for that purpose.

Old Post 03-16-14 03:09 #
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Revenant100
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Quasar said:
There are NO maps that are reused.
This is not correct. In The Lost Mission, Exis Labs is virtually identical to Doom 3's Delta Labs. Even the goal in Exis Labs, Dr. Meyers sending you to get a plasma inducer, is shamelessly identical to Delta Labs' Ian McCormick sending you to get a plasma inducer.

The only fully original levels in The Lost Mission are the first two or so levels and all of Hell. Otherwise, it's just a mishmash of Delta Labs (with pink walls), Enpro, and a few other existing Doom 3 maps.

Old Post 03-16-14 06:12 #
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Da Werecat
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Revenant100 said:
This is not correct. In The Lost Mission, Exis Labs is virtually identical to Doom 3's Delta Labs.

So the whole layout was copied?

Old Post 03-16-14 13:30 #
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Patrol1985
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I guess it makes me an unobjective fanboy, because with provided evidence it is apparent that the Lost Mission was far less original than it should have been.... but it still doesn't bother me, whereas logic dictates that it should.

Old Post 03-16-14 15:49 #
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William Blazkowicz
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TruGamingReloadedYT said:
The song didn't sound even Nazi-ish, the soldiers barely look like Nazis, the other SS monsters are replaced with demons (German Shepherd by Demon and one of the Grooses with a Cyberdemon) the sounds could've been replaced with no-german language


In the original Doom II, the 'dogs' have ALWAYS been demons and Hans has ALWAYS been a Cyberdemon. Just saying.

Old Post 03-19-14 12:09 #
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XCOPY
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How good is it's netcode compared to the old Doom 3? Are there enough people playing it to justify buying it? And if the engines are different, how did they simply copy pasted whole rooms perfectly?

Entire sets of maps converted to the new engine? :P

Old Post 03-19-14 17:28 #
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