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ETTiNGRiNDER
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Posts: 124
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MajorRawne said:
Oh and Doom Man is not called John Stalvern. That's such a ridiculous name I actually prefer Flynn Taggart. Who the hell thought Stalvern sounds like something tough or cool? It sounds like some 1980s action film name, because mullets and silly names were the shit back then.

You realize that the "John Stalvern" name came from a fanfic that was written to be deliberately ridiculous, right? Chances are that impression was exactly what was intended.

Old Post 04-29-14 22:20 #
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Da Werecat
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MajorRawne said:
I think I'm the only person here who thought the dead bunny was ridiculous and not funny... it was an almost unbelievably perfect face-palm moment. "They did WHAT to give the Doom Man motivation?"

Something tells me he was talking about the E3 ending, not the intentionally goofy Ultimate Doom ending, which "retconned" the rabbit's ownership.

Old Post 04-29-14 22:51 #
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Doomkid
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Da Werecat said:
Something tells me he was talking about the E3 ending, not the intentionally goofy Ultimate Doom ending, which "retconned" the rabbit's ownership.

You're right. In fact.... I need to beat E4 and actually see that ending. I've played e1-e3 and doom2 countless times, e4 was something I was introduced to later on and every time I've beaten it, the game crashed at the story text!

Old Post 04-30-14 07:43 #
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Piper Maru
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MajorRawne said:

Oh and Doom Man is not called John Stalvern. That's such a ridiculous name I actually prefer Flynn Taggart. Who the hell thought Stalvern sounds like something tough or cool? It sounds like some 1980s action film name, because mullets and silly names were the shit back then.



Whoa, whoa, whoa. Simmer down there Sparky. First of all, John Stalvern is an incredibly manly name which perfectly suits the Doomguy. What, you think Flynn Faggart from those craptastic Doom novels is a good name? What's wrong with you? Also, John "Reaper" Grimm is a bad ass name as well.

Old Post 04-30-14 08:52 #
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ella guro
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Doom 1 always struck me as, under the surface, being some sort of psychological or existential horror game. that's why i like it whenever i see mods that play up the psychological aspect (i'm also a huge fan of David Lynch and Silent Hill for that reason, so that's a big part of it). i'm fine with the action-oriented gameplay of Doom 2 but i never really felt that was what appealed to me about Doom - and that's why i felt like a lot of mods just didn't appeal to me for a long time. if anything, the action-y stuff appeals to me a lot more now, though it's still definitely way secondary to the feelings a map evokes - the atmosphere and uniqueness.

i think Doom actually does have a story, though the story is told through the levels. it's only implied, but i think it's there.

look at Episode 1 - i don't think of Episode 1 being very upbeat at all by the way. look at the way the episode progresses, especially maps 5-8. but even E1M2 - the dramatically lit hall off to the side of the main path that leads to dark flashing light computer maze. it's kind of a shock, so much that i'd never go there when i was young. it's only early in the episode, but already it's kind of hinting at what's to come. or the way you come down the lift into a crowd of imps at the end of the map and then go down a weirdly empty, weirdly-shaped staircase to the exit. or E1M3 - the trap in the first key area - right after you go outside into the daylight, by the way - when the lights go out. or the normal exit - with the big cartoony "Exit" sign that seems to be almost mocking you or something. E1M4 seems to brighten things up, but then there's stuff like the weird pinky maze that seems to come out of nowhere.

and then E1M5 does a bunch of things to change the tone of the episode in one map. it begins with a huge pool of toxic waste in front of you. it's significantly more darkly lit than the other levels. it feels like a clandestine complex you're not supposed to be at, which you can really see if you exit outside the secret in dark gray area with one of the keys (that area in general is definitely a tone shift). or the pentagram teleporter in the secret, which is really significant because you haven't seen anything like that up to that point. by the time you feel like you have a handle on the level's layout and can exit, it throws you in the middle of the flashing light maze - which still freaks me out to this day. this pretty much confirms that things are permanently fucked up and not going back any time soon.

i think Episode 1 has stuck with a lot of people because it actually gets more terrifying the more you think about it. E1M6 is a genuinely terrifying map, and i think the smartest of the Episode 1 maps. i don't even want to break it down because it does so many things in one map that are really interesting to me - the weird brutalist celings, the huge tech key trap at the beginning. the square-room key maze that makes you feel like you're a test subject. the secrets that trap you inside. the crazy-ass techy shootout ending. E1M6 and E1M7 may have more computer/tech-base styles but their layouts and scenarios make them both deeply unsettling to me. but you sort of have to view them in the context of the entire episode and what came before it for it to make sense. which is what players in December 1993 would have been doing.

Romero's maps are often festishized by Doom modders, but i think a lot of people really miss out on what makes his maps good. Romero is always subverting your expectations and doing things a little differently, even when they might look similar on the surface. Doom Episode 1 DOESN'T just create an atmosphere, it expands on it in a bunch of directions and then (kind of) destroys it. Like a story, it has a beginning, middle, and (sort of) end. it doesn't get too in love with itself or its style (a mistake a lot of mappers who can do aesthetically pleasing stuff make) - it uses them thoughtfully to tell a kind of story.

Romero was the master of tension and release - you can even see this in his Wolf3D maps (which btw is a very underrated game from a level design perspective, if you ignore the underbaked shareware episode). like the encounter in the exit area of Wolf3D's Episode 5 level 1. Episode 5 of Wolf3D in general has a lot of the kind of interesting ideas and encounters you'll see in Episode 1 of Doom, albeit in a much different form.

and this doesn't mean that Romero just puts an ambush of monsters by keycards or exits, by the way! look at the ambush at the beginning of The Tenements in Doom 2 (which is one of my favorite beginnings to a Doom map). because his style stays similar, the changes that happen are definitely more noticeable even if they're subtle - and BECAUSE they're subtle, they're more unnerving.

=================

anyway, i say all of this to say that Doom 1 maps tend to carry a sort of story behind them. i'm not a Christian and so stuff like Hell has always been a sort of shorthand for human suffering to me. Episode 1 is a sort of a slow descent into madness, which is why i find it the most terrifying. Episode 2 is the protagonist trying to make sense of the madness by still trying to salvage the environments of the first, except they're being horribly distorted and rearranged. this culminates in the really strange juxtaposition of spaces of Spawning Vats. the climbing up the Tower of Babel into the destruction of these barriers he's built leads to the full madness of Episode 3, which is the protagonist confronting his own complete madness and suffering. Inferno - the fires within him. look at how the map names jump from being generic names - Command Control, Refinery, etc - and into stuff like Slough of Despair or Pandemonium - emotional states which imply something psychological. and its return to the tech theme of the end of Episode 1 in the Spider Mastermind level kind of hints back to the craziness at the end of E1M6 and signals that you're taking down the biggest demon - your own mind.

that might sound like a goofy or over the top interpretation - and in some ways, it is. but the general themes are there in the design and progression of the maps, and i think that's why Doom 1 resonates with a lot of people in a way that D2 doesn't. you can read a story like that into it without stretching it thin. even in the moments that D1 falls short, it kind of does feel like it's still about something. E3M4 might not be all that interesting from a design perspective but it's thematically unique and very important to the overall episode. and that's why i would feel very comfortable characterizing the whole thing as a horror game.

Last edited by ella guro on 05-03-14 at 00:55

Old Post 05-02-14 23:56 #
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drifter20k
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^^This guy gets it.^^ Beautiful summary of DOOM especially E1.

Old Post 05-03-14 09:17 #
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ella guro
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thanks ^_^. tho i'm not a guy

Old Post 05-03-14 09:54 #
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Ragnor
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^ This is the kind of thing I want TNT Revilution to go for, specifically Episode 2 onwards. The first map of E2 has already been converted to this kind of theme; the music is ambient, unsettling, with howling winds and odd noises. The first few rooms are utterly devoid of enemies, and the base is visibly damaged, with broken pipes, leaking water, the first enemy on the normal path is a spectre. Its meant to make the player wonder "What the hell happened here? Where the hell am I!?"

Old Post 05-03-14 10:23 #
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Netherstorm
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I'm sure when it was first released back in '93 it was quite scary, because this whole 'first person' genre was quite new at that time, with only a few games executing the idea. So to see clips on tv or something like that of demons in the dark attacking the player, satanic symbols on the walls, the growling of the imps and demons from afar; it could have very well been pretty scary at the time. I know when I first saw Doom when I was young it was quite scary, and it blew my mind.

Old Post 05-04-14 05:11 #
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Krazov
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I remember, in 1995--maybe 1996--parents left me home alone and I thought I will play a little and started playing "Pandemonium" (E3M3) while it was dark outside, and it freaked me out so much (I remember the spine texture especially) that I was afraid to go to toilet till they returned. For some time I played Doom only in a daylight. So I guess in its time it could have been considered scary, as in horror story. Now it's mostly "oh my god, dozen of revenants after me" freaking out.

Last edited by Krazov on 05-04-14 at 13:11

Old Post 05-04-14 13:03 #
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Elaxter
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I'm terrified to play DOOM 2 with vanilla graphics. (DOS) I can't see very well. It's dark and foreboding.

Old Post 05-04-14 21:32 #
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MajorRawne
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Piper Maru said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Simmer down there Sparky. First of all, John Stalvern is an incredibly manly name which perfectly suits the Doomguy. What, you think Flynn Faggart from those craptastic Doom novels is a good name? What's wrong with you? Also, John "Reaper" Grimm is a bad ass name as well.


Flynn Taggart is a ridiculous name for a basketball player or a gritty detective. It is most certainly not the name of the Doom Marine. I own the first novel, it was unfortunately not quite at the same competency level as a bad Point Horror novel, but the names provided a good deal of humour.

The Doom film was good as a one-off sci-fi horror, but it was representative of Doom 3, not the "proper", classic Doom.

As for John Stalvern, well I suppose it sounds more like a man who spends his life looking through a sniper scope instead of a microscope.

Old Post 05-04-14 21:50 #
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Patch93
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Guys can we please not bring that discussion into this thread? Doomguy is supposed to be YOU. End of story.

Old Post 05-04-14 23:55 #
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Joe667
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Darch said:

I had forgotten Ive played Doom with no music until 2007 or so. It just ruined the atmosphere. Now I see it as an arcade, so I don't mind anymore. At my first couple of maps music was replaced by blanks. I can dig an upbeat metal soundtrack if you are exploding everything with a rocket launcher, but at first map with that pea shooter pistol?



I often thought The Imp's Song would fit the first level much better. I mean, if you played Doom for the first time... it would just fit so much better!

On GBA, it IS The Imp's Song...

That said, I do love the sound of Gate to Doom with an OPL synth emulator.

Old Post 05-05-14 19:23 #
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DoomGuy2013
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I sometimes get tensed up when entering dark rooms or rooms with flashing lights. The music and sounds of the demons add to the effect of this.

Old Post 12-16-14 22:23 #
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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


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I still find Doom tense, but only in certain instances. There are certain mods that can create disturbing moods that can get still put me on edge.

Old Post 12-16-14 23:21 #
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Xegethra
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I was brought up on PSX Doom, and that is the game that scared me growing up, it was just bizarre. All of the sounds and music it had. It was also quite dark in light. Texture choices were even more abstract, I know due to console limits, but it just added to the surreal vibe.

Then I played PC Doom and really...it's not that scary, a fun cartoony shooter but nothing that could strike fear in me. Mods and WADs could do this, but as a base game, it can't.

Old Post 12-17-14 05:31 #
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CyberDemonEmpress
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Some of the imagery was very scary to me when I was younger, and peaked my interest when I first played doom, some traps where monster teleported in scared me a bit. However I recall when I first fought the cyberdemon having no knowledge of his existences prior, he was a terrifying site to behold for sure. I had almost the same feeling when I had my first battle with the spidermastermind as well.

Old Post 12-17-14 05:57 #
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Holering
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In a way I think PC Doom was scary. IMO the scariest is PSX Final Doom. PSX Doom is scary too, but Final Doom PSX seems more survival horrorish IMO (maybe because of more slowdown and higher difficulty). Aubrey Hodges work goes well with stock Doom resources, unlike the cartoonish silliness in Doom 64 (the levels are very cool, but the monsters are quite silly and unscary IMO).

Old Post 12-17-14 09:32 #
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Optimus
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I never considered it scary in the sense like Outlast is scary.
Maybe I played it too late, when I was 15 or 16 years old. Atmospheric yes, good use of shadows, sometimes an imp or soldier will pop up in front of me and make me jump, but that was the gameplay surprise and didn't happen often. The sprites were already funny like cartoons. But not scary in the sense of Resident Evil or Alone in the Dark. Not scary in the modern sense with intentional scarejumps or true horror game/film of today.

Old Post 12-17-14 10:24 #
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Death Metal 2000
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It use to have it's scary moments, but as a whole it is just really energetic.

Old Post 12-17-14 23:00 #
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Ragnor
I do see the humour in a mod sneakily changing my title


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I don't think the game ever managed to scare me, not even in the slightest, on PC. PSX and D64, sure! The most ive ever gotten from PC Doom is jump scares from unexpected monsters

Old Post 12-18-14 00:58 #
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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


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PSX Dooms are definitely scary, especially Final Doom PSX. It's dat music. It's just haunting as all fuck. I really need to play that again with the lights off and some good bud. It's a hell of an experience.

Old Post 12-18-14 12:43 #
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DMGUYDZ64
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DOOM 64 Was,simply because it was Darker and it's soundtracks were creepier ..

Old Post 12-20-14 12:22 #
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Sandstormer
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Yes, Doom was definitely considered scary when it first came out. Doom came out when videogames were cartoony, colorful, and considered "Just for kids". Platformers dominated the era, and even the old 8-bit NES was still being supported. When Doom came out, it was this ultra realistic looking shooting game that was dark, serious, and mature. It was the most 3D looking game to come out at the time, so it ushered in a new level of immersion. Add in the atmosphere and the imagery, which were considered extreme for the time, and voila. The game featured blood, which was extremely uncommon at the time, and it featured enemies that actually died and stayed on screen while lying in a pool of their own blood. Enemies either fell off of the screen or started blinking and then disappeared in this era, but they didn't actually die in a realistic way. Seeing them actually die in a realistic way and stay there indefinitely was a whole new level of realism at the time.

Did I consider Doom scary when I first played it back in the mid 90's? Definitely, but it was a more subtle type of scary, as opposed to the cheap jump scares that modern games seem to rely on.

The impeccable sense of foreboding that the game built up as you played it is what I considered the scariest part of the game. Doom did a legendary job of making everything seem foreboding. You started out in E1M1 where everything was safe and well-lit, then things began to get darker and more dangerous as you progressed. The monsters became bigger, scarier, and more powerful as you went further into the game. It created a genuine sense of dread because you figured out that things were only going to get worse if you kept going, and the further you went, the more you began to dread looking around the next corner. There were plenty of times in E3 that I would wish that I could return to the safety and normalcy of E1M1.

Then there was the demonic imagery and the gore. It created a sense of shock and it made things even more disturbing. When you saw gut piles and hanging, mutilated bodies, you knew that the enemy meant business. It also made you realize that all of your allies were dead and that you were the only one left alive.

When you heard random sounds in the environment, you knew that there was someone or something actively stalking you, which added to the overall sense of foreboding and dread.

All of these things would be considered effective horror by today's standards, so imagine what it was like back in 1993 when videogames were all about bright colorful characters. Doom wasn't scary in a "please don't turn out the lights" kind of way. It was scary in a "this is really screwed up and I want to turn back!" kind of way.

Old Post 12-21-14 19:06 #
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joe-ilya
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Crouching into mancubus corpses gave me the creeps, my uncle kept doing it.

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Old Post 12-21-14 19:59 #
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