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Espi
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Nanami said:
We'll both do a demo so people can see it from both views.
There's the coop spy button (F12 iirc) for that, no need to make two demos.

Old Post 11-26-02 22:53 #
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Grazza
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Nanami said:
When I get home from work and taking my sister to the mall, my friend and I are going to record MAP32 of Plutonia, co-op.
Once you've polished that one off, why not try two other Casali classics:
Seej.wad: 29 Com; 45 Wol; 229 Imp; 36 Cac; 18 Ele; 124 Kni; 77 Bar; 21 Man; 285 Rev; 16 Vil; 10 Cyb; 5 Spi
Punisher.wad: 32 Sar; 96 Com; 14 Imp; 40 Dem; 19 Cac; 68 Ele; 8 Kni; 32 Bar; 106 Man; 93 Rev; 54 Ara; 18 Vil; 10 Cyb; 11 Spi
(These are the single-player stats.)

Actually, I'd find all this a bit more interesting if it were extended to pwads. OK, it started as "iwad demos to show how you normally play", but it has clearly moved on somewhat. If maps are chosen that we haven't all played before (and there are plenty of good obscure maps out there), then there will be more scope for creativity in route choices, and there won't be any compet-n demos to make us all feel useless by comparison! We'd need to identify maps that have good gameplay and aren't inhumanly difficult to play without savegames, obviously.

Last edited by Grazza on 11-26-02 at 23:12

Old Post 11-26-02 23:00 #
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myk
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That's what the normal sections of the SDA are for (not that you don't know)...

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Old Post 11-26-02 23:38 #
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Grazza
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myk said:
That's what the normal sections of the SDA are for (not that you don't know)...
It's not the same really. In this thread, there are a number of people agreeing to play the same map (in various different game modes) at the same time, and comparing notes on times, methods, etc., before submitting (some of) their best efforts.

Old Post 11-27-02 00:53 #
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myk
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So? Who said people can't do that with PWAD demos? That wasn't the original idea behind this thread, but nothing stops anyone from starting a PWAD demo thread or adding them to this one. Most of these demos are going to an IWAD section Opulent made anyway. Are you saying the SDA is different in some way, like, you can't talk about what you upload? It just accepts PWAD demos and it's an excellent place to store them... I don't see where else they would go. No point making a separate page for "DW thread PWAD demos."

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Old Post 11-27-02 01:19 #
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Opulent
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not to butt in, but...
I think you both are trying to misunderstand each other.
Grazza's point, I think, is that pwad maps are more flexible... demos (overall) are more showy. He was just suggesting 2 other Casali maps for Nanami to try...
myk is trying to keep the thread (and the i d page) focused as it was started -- only Iwad demos that are just plainly recorded.
we are all friends, record or submit whatever you like...
besides, the DSF is really the place for this entire thread. :)

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Old Post 11-27-02 01:42 #
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DOOM Anomaly
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...Group hug...?

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Old Post 11-27-02 01:44 #
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Rich
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Grazza said:

Actually, I'd find all this a bit more interesting if it were extended to pwads. OK, it started as "iwad demos to show how you normally play", but it has clearly moved on somewhat. If maps are chosen that we haven't all played before (and there are plenty of good obscure maps out there), then there will be more scope for creativity in route choices, and there won't be any compet-n demos to make us all feel useless by comparison! We'd need to identify maps that have good gameplay and aren't inhumanly difficult to play without savegames, obviously. [/B]



I think I understand where your coming from. I also agree with MYK regarding the DSDA. I do submit pwad demos to the SDA and I try to do the best I can. I believe other players do the same.

However, in the spirit of just recording a map to obtain a 'good' time and show how you normally play, without doing it repeatedly to obtain a 'best' time, I would be happy to record a pwad of your choice and just exchange demos. Perhaps others would join in and we could just exchange rather than post. What do you think?

Old Post 11-27-02 02:08 #
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magikal
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DOOM Anomaly said:
...Group hug...?

Yeah why not. I think it's great, I haven't seen this much action and exchange since I started coming here! It's great to see people play no matter what their skill level, it's the spirit of the playing that's important. I've been tryng to do a decent lmp for map02 with great difficulty. I couldn't break 1:40 for ages so I changed my set-up. 1:39.

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Last edited by magikal on 11-27-02 at 04:07

Old Post 11-27-02 02:17 #
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Rich
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Magikal!

Nice lmp!

Old Post 11-27-02 02:27 #
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magikal
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Rich said:
Magikal!

Nice lmp!


Yup, I'm there at last. Bye m/l, heh!

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Old Post 11-27-02 02:33 #
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magikal
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Nanami said:
When I get home from work and taking my sister to the mall, my friend and I are going to record MAP32 of Plutonia....

You may have trouble if you're using Legacy. I tried to record Plmap32 many times with Legacy, it crashes half way through, remember that one Rich?

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Old Post 11-27-02 02:39 #
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Grazza
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Heh, myk's always trying to misunderstand me :)

Yes, my point was that this thread seems to be causing a lot of very welcome enthusiasm for demo recording, and I think it would make sense if its ambit were widened a little, if other people agree. And yes, if these demos are submitted to Opulent, then they could fit inside the existing DSDA structure - why not? But how he organizes his site is his decision of course. And of course this thread isn't the only place where people can/could conceivably discuss demo recording...

I think this thread has already developed considerably from its initial starting point. Some of the times people have been registering are very far from "normal play" and are, I presume, the result of a great deal of effort.

One of the aspects of demo recording that I enjoy the most is deciding on a route and then improving it, trying other options, etc. Well-chosen pwads would provide more scope for this than wads that most of us are already very familiar with.

And yes, my comment about the Casali wads was an aside, and separate from the suggestion about pwad demos.

Last edited by Grazza on 11-27-02 at 02:45

Old Post 11-27-02 02:39 #
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Rich
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magikal said:

You may have trouble if you're using Legacy. I tried to record Plmap32 many times with Legacy, it crashes half way through, remember that one Rich?




I do remember that; however, I just now tried it through to the end using legacy 1.4 and IDDQD so I guess the problem has been fixed. :)

Old Post 11-27-02 04:03 #
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Nanami
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Help! You guys, I'm having trouble with the Plutonia MAP32 demo. Anyone help?

We're recording the demos fine. We can play it back just as easily. The problem is, we can't record a demo of both of us. If I host, the other computer records MY demo, and for some reason it doesn't add in the multiplayer monsters. But my demo on MY computer is fine. If the other computer hosts, it does the same thing only in reverse. We can't get the non-host to record a demo of themselves playing. Plus, the non-host's demo doesn't put in the multiplayer monsters, so it desyncs rather quickly. Is there a paremeter I need to use?

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Old Post 11-27-02 04:04 #
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magikal
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Rich said:

I do remember that; however, I just now tried it through to the end using legacy 1.4 and IDDQD so I guess the problem has been fixed. :)


Wonderful! I'm gonna record it at last.:)

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Old Post 11-27-02 04:05 #
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Nanami
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Oops, I'm stupid. I looked through the help files and it says you can hit F12 to switch player views. So we only need to record one demo. Well anyway, we're about to record again, so I'll send soon. ^_^

I should have read the above posts that told me that before I jumped into it. o_O

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Old Post 11-27-02 04:31 #
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magikal
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Nanami said:
Well anyway, we're about to record again, so I'll send soon. ^_^



Look forward to it, it's a great map, lots of spectacular action.:)

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Old Post 11-27-02 04:37 #
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Nanami
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Oh, so far we have two demos, but we're trying for something spectacularly entertaining. ^_^

But yeah, this is a lot of fun. When I upload this one, I'll also be sending (single player) Doom II: MAP04 and MAP21, as well as E2M9.

I'm no speed demon or pacifist or even tyson mode myself, I just usually upload a demo of me playing. Although most are all 100%, or at least 100% kills. =) I could never do those speed runs, or nightmare runs. Very nice job, guys.

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Old Post 11-27-02 05:21 #
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Grazza
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Nanami said:
I could never do those speed runs, or nightmare runs. Very nice job, guys.
I think that if you can cope with Plutonia's map32, you should be able to handle NM on ordinary maps. It just takes a bit of getting used to... Try UV -fast first of all, so you get used to the speed of the monsters: you can play cautiously, and get used to dodging the fast fireballs, tackling turbocharged demons, etc.

NM kind of forces a certain pace (it is difficult to play the map slowly), and it is tempting sometimes just to try running past everything (this works sometimes, of course), rather than making proper use of the double ammo. The big challenge with NM though comes from its utter unpredictability. Also, it's sometimes difficult to know when to give up on an NM run on a particular map, but that is more of a practical/sanity issue!

Old Post 11-27-02 05:34 #
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Nanami
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Last I tried, I couldn't even beat E1M1 on Nightmare. But that's probably because I always aim for as many kills as possible. And that was a long time ago. I should try E1 on Nightmare sometime.

I can almost beat MAP32 of Plutonia by myself on UV, but every time I try, I always avoid saving because I always record a demo in case I actually beat it. I always end up dying because of stupid things, not because I'm bad at the level. I could beat it if I could load from a previous point and make up for stupid mistakes. The closest one I had was me with all three keys, ready to exit, and falling in the grass pit with no BFG ammo and having three Cyberdemons lay on me. Oh well.

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Old Post 11-27-02 07:23 #
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DOOM Anomaly
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I really look forward to seeing em Co-op demos Nanami, they sound like they will be great. ^_^

In the mean time, I'll make a few and send them in, just for giggles, unless someone wants a certain one that is.

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Old Post 11-27-02 07:31 #
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Nanami
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MAP08! It's one of my favorites, and I'd like to see some speedruns or Nightmare modes or whatever you guys like to do. I can do one later if you want. =) I think it's a fun map because of all the little, well, tricks and traps.

Oh. While I'm on a roll, anyone want to see some co-op of any UD/D2/TNT/Plutonia levels?

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Old Post 11-27-02 07:58 #
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myk
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Map20 of tnt is nice and big, you may want to try that one on coop. And you may also want to try Romero's e4m6 now that you have company. Doom2's map14 might be fun on coop too.

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Old Post 11-27-02 08:53 #
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Grazza
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Nanami said:
MAP08! It's one of my favorites, and I'd like to see some speedruns or Nightmare modes or whatever you guys like to do.
UV Speed and NM are pretty easy on map08 thanks to the two invulnerabilities. I've just quickly recorded a Nightmare Pacifist run in 1:12; it could go much much faster, but some monster cooperation is needed (compet-n times: 0:20 NM; 0:22 UV Pacifist).

Killing monsters isn't relevant in NM (EDIT: what I mean is that the percentage kills doesn't matter; killing monsters is often rather important from the point of view of surviving!), since they just come back to life again. E1M1 is easy on NM if you go straight to the exit via the outdoors route (you can pick up the blue armour if you want an extra margin of safety).

Last edited by Grazza on 11-27-02 at 13:57

Old Post 11-27-02 10:23 #
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DooMer 4ever
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I'm no good in NM too. I tried map02 several times and only get to the halfway of the map. Those shotgun guys always get me :(

I think Grazza's idea to play pwads too is good. Now we only have to find a wad to play... I would suggest Nanami's Grind2 but It seems she hasn't released it yet. Nothing comes to my mind now, a short but quite hard map could be good.

Old Post 11-27-02 12:14 #
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Rich
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Nanami said:
MAP08! It's one of my favorites, and I'd like to see some speedruns or Nightmare modes or whatever you guys like to do. I can do one later if you want. =) I think it's a fun map because of all the little, well, tricks and traps.

Oh. While I'm on a roll, anyone want to see some co-op of any UD/D2/TNT/Plutonia levels?




Just sent in a pacifist version, skill 4, in 0:43. The only thing you have to watch is crossing those sinking rocks leading to the exit. Go too slow and you'll not reach the exit door.

You may find my earlier e1m8 pacifist more interesting as you have to get two barons to fight to end the level. It's not hard. You just have to be patient and maneuver the barons next to the exploding barrels so one can set them off and hurt the other baron. After one kills the other you use the remaining demons to finish off the remaining baron. As always in pacifist, you can't hurt the monsters in any way (accidential telefragging is okay) but you are allowed to get them to fight.

I would enjoy seeing your co-op lmps.

Old Post 11-27-02 12:26 #
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Grazza
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It's funny, but on Map08 NM, the place where I fail most often is in the exit room, since the demon just gets in the way - fast monsters tend to attack so often, they don't have time to move! (NM Pacifist 0:46 and NM 0:43 are my best so far). The second biggest hold-up is the cyber, again because he stays rooted to the spot. NM100S would be the real man's way to play this map. I'm not sure I'm real enough :)

OK, I have a suggestion for a quality PWAD that I doubt many people have played: Iditarod by T. Eliot Cannon, aka Myscha the Sled Dog. This guy got a job in the gaming industry (e.g. Unreal) on the strength of his Doom maps, so the quality obviously isn't going to be too bad. All ten maps should be quite comfortably playable on UV for experienced Doomers (I didn't use savegames and didn't die too many times before completing them each from a pistol start). The later maps (7-10) might take quite a while (15-20 mins maybe?), and would, I think, be better for Max than for Speed. There are a few switch/timing puzzles, but they're not too annoying. The earlier maps are probably nicer ones for recording.

Old Post 11-27-02 13:36 #
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DooMer 4ever
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Grazza said:
OK, I have a suggestion for a quality PWAD that I doubt many people have played: Iditarod by T. Eliot Cannon, aka Myscha the Sled Dog. This guy got a job in the gaming industry (e.g. Unreal) on the strength of his Doom maps, so the quality obviously isn't going to be too bad. All ten maps should be quite comfortably playable on UV for experienced Doomers (I didn't use savegames and didn't die too many times before completing them each from a pistol start). The later maps (7-10) might take quite a while (15-20 mins maybe?), and would, I think, be better for Max than for Speed. There are a few switch/timing puzzles, but they're not too annoying. The earlier maps are probably nicer ones for recording.


Ok, downloaded. I'll make a demo later today.

Old Post 11-27-02 15:11 #
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Nanami
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DooMer 4ever said:
I would suggest Nanami's Grind2 but It seems she hasn't released it yet.


I submitted it, they just haven't gotten around to making /newstuff #105 yet. Something like that happens every time I submit my wads. =P

I could set up a download for the file if you guys want to do it. My webmaster might get peeved if too many people download it (he hosts from DSL) but just a handful of people wouldn't upset anything.

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Old Post 11-27-02 18:29 #
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