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Kaiser
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since this question is on tophic, I watched this speedrun (movie) and up to the point when he was playing map16, without getting the red key, he went to the exit and just squeezed through the red door (bar) and he also did the same in map22 with the bars


just wondering how the heck that was done..

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Old Post 08-14-03 04:22 #
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Opulent
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http://ural2.hszk.bme.hu/~ha211/com...page=doom2trick
the trick has to do with the player being just one unit wider than the opening... but the opening is at a sharp angle... so since DOOM calculates collision as it happens, and it uses the polar coordinate system, sometimes you can just fit through.
pretty damn cool, if you ask me.
those two maps in that speedrun are definitely "don't blink or you'll miss it" maps. :)

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Old Post 08-14-03 04:59 #
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sargebaldy
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Fredrik said:
In fact there is.
yeah, kind of like how quake has a plot. i just mean it would have been better off without one.

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Old Post 08-14-03 07:54 #
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ellmo
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Anyway I see no fun in running through all the levels of this great game in 15 minutes. It may be done once, but on the second hand, the game lacks it's climate... It lacks everything, It's just a damned race.

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Old Post 08-14-03 11:54 #
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Grazza
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Each to his own. I've watched 30uv1617.lmp hundreds of times, and it still retains its appeal. It's the sense of near-perfection that appeals. You know: "this is how it would look if God played Doom" (if He existed, of course).
Old Post 08-14-03 12:46 #
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Grimm
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I don't think God plays Doom.
Old Post 08-14-03 20:35 #
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Ultraviolet
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Fredrik said:
All walls in Doom are infinitely thin :P
You seem to be really good with math, so why is your explanation here lacking? They can't be "thin" (with any adjective, "infinitely" or otherwise) because they have no thickness. The walls are actually closer to being (conceptually) planar, having no thickness. Technically, though, as far as the engine is concerned, they don't really have a height either, do they? I mean, the wall is just a line that determines blocking, with the sector determining how much of the image on that line you can see... right? (Probably not, but whatever.)

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Old Post 08-14-03 20:48 #
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Fredrik
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Ultraviolet said:
You seem to be really good with math, so why is your explanation here lacking? They can't be "thin" (with any adjective, "infinitely" or otherwise) because they have no thickness.
It's just a matter of word usage. The way I interpret it, "infinitely thin" translates to "having no thickness".

Technically, though, as far as the engine is concerned, they don't really have a height either, do they? I mean, the wall is just a line that determines blocking, with the sector determining how much of the image on that line you can see... right?
That's right.
Old Post 08-14-03 20:54 #
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myk


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Grimm said:
I don't think God plays Doom.


Heh, I'll keep that line in mind as a reply when someone asks me whether I believe in God.

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Old Post 08-14-03 22:35 #
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Ultraviolet
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Fredrik said:
That's right.
Yay for me!

But as far as "word usage" goes, I think you're just covering your ass now. :P

(If you were to say "infinitely thin" in a mathematical context, it would be like saying that it does have a thickness, although immeasurable. I'm only arguing about this because that terminology should NOT be used. I was confused for YEARS thinking that points actually have dimensions because it was explained to me with that kind of terminology and I don't think it should be explained to people that way because it leads to an incorrect understanding. I understand now, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...)

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Old Post 08-15-03 01:23 #
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Fredrik
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Well, infinitely thin must logically define a thickness of 0 (what else would it define?), which is the same as no thickness at all.
Old Post 08-15-03 01:35 #
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Ultraviolet
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That terminology, for a layman, isn't as clear as just saying "the object in question does not have that dimension." It fails to immediately make it clear. Something that is said to be "infinite" doesn't necessarily not have a size. Just think about maybe the distance from one end of "the universe" to the opposite end (I couldn't think of a better example, I know this ends-of-the-universe thing is dumb). It's immeasurable (as far as I know, tell me if they've made something up by now :P), but it still uh... has a size. It's just beyond human quantifiability.

I suppose maybe it just clashes with me. Everybody develops an understanding of the terminology with slightly different schema behind it. Maybe for you infinitely small is exactly the same as inexistant in terms of the dimension in question, but it isn't for me and I'm willing to bet that at least a few other people think the same way.

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Old Post 08-15-03 01:44 #
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Grazza
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Yes, Fredrik's post has left me totally confused about the nature of infinity, and consequently I am now reassessing my entire system of values. :p

TBH, I think "infinitely thin" is a perfectly acceptable term in informal contexts, and certainly the best way to express the idea in what was a dig at my own horribly imprecise statement.

BTW (back on topic), a new 30uv by Radek Pecka appeared yesterday. While it doesn't break the record, it includes some tricks that haven't been executed before in an unassisted 30uv run.
Old Post 08-15-03 01:51 #
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Ultraviolet
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So like, in Doom, if you could run at an infinite speed, your completion time could be infinitely small... :P

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Old Post 08-15-03 01:55 #
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Grimm
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Heh, you just screwed up my head massively dude. Screw you! :P
Old Post 08-15-03 02:44 #
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Darkhaven3
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One end of the universe to the other is approximately 15 Billion lightyears.

Now, say we're talking about sprites, right?Sprites have no
density whatsoever. More thin than paper. The walls are sprites that are skewed, scaled, and rotated according to the player's FOV, by pulling one block of pixels at a time, which is one reason SNES and 32x Doom have horrible resolutions under emulators. Since TV's have "Natural Anti-Aliasing," meaning the TV blurs it and blends it so much it appears almost half the image's actual width, the dev's can do this alot easier by pulling on bigger blocks and not having to worry about the image appearing too "thick." Cheap lazy-asses ;)

Just a hypothesis :P

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Old Post 08-15-03 03:06 #
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Fredrik
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Yeah but the collision detection code doesn't care about the pixel blocks used for rendering, it uses plain 2D geometry.
Old Post 08-15-03 03:13 #
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Darkhaven3
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I know, I'm just talking about the pseudo-3D code they used.
I've gotta admit, though, that's pretty clever = Rotating+scaling sprites between 2D lines to make a semi-3D game. God, iD is so cool...

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Old Post 08-15-03 03:18 #
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Ultraviolet
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Darkhaven3 said:
More thin than paper.
THAT is what I'm talking about. It is not just more thin than paper. It is thinner than anything because it has no thickness -- that dimension does not exist for the object in question.

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Old Post 08-15-03 04:07 #
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myk


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Grazza said:
TBH, I think "infinitely thin" is a perfectly acceptable term in informal contexts, and certainly the best way to express the idea in what was a dig at my own horribly imprecise statement.


Yet some walls in DOOM really can be considered to have a thickness, just like walls in real life. But of course a question about missile collision in DOOM shouldn't be talking about walls.

BTW (back on topic), a new 30uv by Radek Pecka appeared yesterday. While it doesn't break the record, it includes some tricks that haven't been executed before in an unassisted 30uv run.


Cool. He recently did a -fast max, now this.

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Old Post 08-15-03 04:16 #
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Darkhaven3
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...A B C D L M N O G, don't you know your ABC's?

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Old Post 08-15-03 04:31 #
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Never_Again
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mlin said:
I did not include Final Doom since they were not designed by id Software; only marketed by them. I'd like to stay on topic though.


You might as well exclude Thy Flesh Consumed, then.
Old Post 08-17-03 17:09 #
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myk


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I don't think it's the same deal, since Romero headed the episode's development and produced two maps as well.

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Old Post 08-17-03 17:22 #
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Optiks
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Speaking of 30uv1617.lmp, which ports can be used to view this? I tried both prboom and glboom but they both lost sync during map02.
Old Post 08-24-03 16:06 #
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Fredrik
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Optiks said:
Speaking of 30uv1617.lmp, which ports can be used to view this? I tried both prboom and glboom but they both lost sync during map02.
Make sure you're using the latest version and check that your doom2 IWAD is the right one (14604584 bytes).
Old Post 08-24-03 16:15 #
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Optiks
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I got it working now. I had the latest version and the right wad but for some reason, glboom lost sync with the demo because it wasn't in the prboom directory <shrugs>. Oh well, thanks Fredrik.
Old Post 08-24-03 16:48 #
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Grazza
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The location of the files shouldn't matter - I regularly use GLBoom with files from several different locations on my HD. Maybe you have more than one version of Doom2.wad, and the location of the files in one case caused the program to choose one that had had, e.g., the nodes rebuilt or the reject map altered (since you mention map02...).

If that was the problem, note that you can specify the iwad in the command line (e.g. -iwad c:\doom2\doom2.wad).

Other ports it plays back with: mbf, eternity (latest version). And tasmbf I imagine, though I haven't watched it with that.
Old Post 08-24-03 17:43 #
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