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The Ultimate DooMer
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If we're playing a vanilla map with a source port, are we allowed to use features like freelook, look up/down etc. when recording, or are these banned as well as jumping and the other stuff?

Old Post 12-10-03 21:10 #
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Rich
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To my knowledge none of these features are banned; however, use of them is considered cheating by some individuals as they are not available in vanilla Doom.

Others feel differently and do use them and the lmps are accepted at the DSDA. I believe Opulent feels people can tell the difference.

From my perspective they give the player an added advantage over those who do not use them; consequently, all things are not equal when comparing lmps.

One noteable example of this is mouselook. You save time, ammo, and possible health by looking up to fight enemies in situations where the non-mouselook player has to back away (which exposes him/her to fire) to even see the enemy (for example: enemies on a wall or a hillside above you or at such a distance your missle normally strikes below them, or take the cacos or PEs' that rise high above you or move far away from you, no problem with mouselook).

Looking down into a pit or a pool and being able to shoot (at a closer range) is a big advantage where under normal conditions the non-mouselook player can't even see the enemy because they are close to the wall at his/her feet. Consequently your forced to quickly run to the other side in hopes of getting off a couple of shots before the monsters running towards you disappear beneath your view, then it's off running back to the other side, etc. etc.

Last edited by Rich on 12-11-03 at 00:13

Old Post 12-10-03 21:30 #
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insertwackynamehere
The Chewbacca defense gone nightmare


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What happens if demos with port features are played in Vannilla Doom?


HAPPY BIRTHDAY "DOOM"!!!!!!

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Old Post 12-10-03 22:21 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Then the game crashes with a resounding boom and scattered debris sounds and you have to reformat your hard drive.

Old Post 12-10-03 22:39 #
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Grazza
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As Rich says, Opulent accepts them. You can view them as just a different category of demos.

Personally, I think that if a map that was designed to be played with the original exes, then port features that enable a player to take unintended shortcuts (or, e.g., to avoid taking damage while crossing nukage) should not be used on that map. For instance, Doom2 map07 UV Speed with jumping allowed is a bit silly.

Some of these things are kind of marginal though. Crossing a room jam-packed with monsters by running over their heads is obviously a much bigger deviation from the intended gameplay than happening to move over a single monster. That was something I felt uneasy about when recording on H2H-Xmas map04 in Legacy. At one point you drop down into a passage that is likely to have some sergeants in it. Chances are that you will walk over one of them. However, when I recently recorded on the same map with Doom2.exe compatibility, it didn't make much difference: I happened to "squeeze" past one of the sergeants, and found him unexpectedly behind me in any case.

I dunno; it's a matter of judgement. If you feel you are benefiting unfairly from port features, and that bothers you, then it makes sense to make a change of some sort. If you're happy with the way you're recording and like the results, then continue in the same way. We record demos because we enjoy it, after all. Just be aware that a direct comparison with Doom2.exe demos may not be very valid (my sn26-038 recorded with Legacy is grossly inferior to Vile's sn26-038, for instance, since I was able to run underneath the cacos).

In case you're wondering, it does bother me that one doesn't run at the same speed in prboom as you do in Doom2.exe. It's only a small difference, but it is a difference. Some port features can't be turned off, and then you just need to decide whether overall you are happy staying with that port.

Note that port features can make things more difficult. Try recording a Max using MBF or Prboom with enhanced monster AI, for instance.

You specifically asked about Freelook and look up/down. When I used Legacy (with mlook), I would always avoid shooting switches (and boss brains) from places where the player wasn't meant to be able to shoot them from. I also tried not to use splash damage from mlook-aimed rockets to kill monsters I shouldn't have been able to hit at all (always difficult to be sure though). Likewise with rockets that hit the ground and damaged monsters that way - I didn't do it deliberately, but it inevitably happened sometimes.

Last edited by Grazza on 12-10-03 at 23:36

Old Post 12-10-03 23:27 #
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Opulent
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Rich and Grazza summed it up really well.
to answer your question directly: yes, any type of demos(though if you don't exit, there better be a good reason) are accepted.
as long as the demo can be re-watched, then it is valid. (some ports do not have demo support at all; it will record but not playback)

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Old Post 12-11-03 01:31 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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I was asking because looking down gives you a big advantage in Fragport map 32, as it takes away the huge risk of not seeing where you're going in the narrow ledge games... (and that's why I screwed up on previous attempts at recording it)

Old Post 12-11-03 16:35 #
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Grazza
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Well, given that it's your own map, I'd say you probably have a pretty good idea how it was intended to be played. ;)

Old Post 12-11-03 18:41 #
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