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Kristian Ronge
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EDIT:

Two weeks ago I recorded some silly Strolling demos for Doom 2, and now we have a pack with 48 demos! Wow. I give you:

The Strolling LMP Collection by Grazza, Vince, and myself.

Some notes: I hope everything in the .txt is accurate, I checked it but who knows? If you find an error, report it. If Grazza/Op want to host the pack elsewhere, feel free to do so and edit this post to change the link. [Edit by Grazza: done - with an extra demo and batch files added.]

Also, I felt it was a bit overkill to make an entirely new thread for this. If you feel otherwise, then by all means, make a new thread.

(Oh, and here's the set of demos that started it -> strollmp.zip)

Linguica, these are dedicated to you!

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 01-21-05 at 18:01

01-02-05 13:01 #

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Szymanski

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LOL, it's so the opposite of Doom it's almost wrong :)

01-02-05 15:06 #

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Grazza
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These are both good and funny. Map27 was great.

I thought I'd jump on the bandwagon. This zip contains 7 stroller demos (all Doom.exe or Doom2.exe format) on Ultimate Doom and two well-known Doom2 megawads:

Ultimate Doom: E1M1 in 0:20; E2M2 in 0:31
Eternal: map13 in 0:10; map14 in 0:18
Icarus: map05 in 0:38; map10 in 0:28; map31 in 0:38

01-02-05 19:42 #

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Searcher
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Man, don't those take you back to the time before you knew you could run and strafe.

They look so very slow by todays norm. They are pretty funny too. Makes a seasoned player almost look like a newbie. I do realize they are quite hard as well.

Pacifist is hard when you can run, it is a lot harder when you can't run or strafe.

edit:typo

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01-02-05 23:14 #

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Linguica

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01-02-05 23:51 #

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Grazza
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I've added Plutonia map18 (0:24) to my zip, and also improved the text-file (a few route credits).

I wanted to do Plutonia map17, but couldn't get across one of the gaps. :(

01-03-05 10:46 #

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Kristian Ronge
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I'm happy some people enjoyed the demos. Thanks for your comments.

Grazza said:
I wanted to do Plutonia map17, but couldn't get across one of the gaps. :(

Hehe, I know what you mean. In Doom 2 map 27, it's (probably) impossible to go through using the stairs in the beginning. You *have to* use the newer route, and even then you sometimes fail it.

In fact, looking at some maps, they are completely impossible to finish strolling style, no matter how talented the player, due to too large gaps, or a remotely activated door/lift that the player cannot reach (because the map author designed it with running in mind)!

EDIT: Nice runs there, Grazza! Your Plutonia map 18 run was one of the funniest demos I've seen for a looong time. :-)

Made another one, E2M5 in 0:59.

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 01-03-05 at 11:50

01-03-05 11:12 #

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Grazza
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I imagine some of these gaps can be crossed if you get a speed boost from a monster shooting you at the right moment.

BTW, E3M6 is perhaps the easiest one of all for strolling in Ultimate Doom (even easier than E1M1 with the outdoor route). The switch trick doesn't need strafing.

I suppose tnt map15 should be easy enough too - you just need to decide how you're going to deal with the monsters near the exit.

01-03-05 14:00 #

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Kristian Ronge
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Yes, E3M6 is trivial, even for strolling. I guess I could record a demo, but everyone can do it, so I don't see the point really.

TNT map 15, eh? I'll have a look at it.

BTW, isn't the usual UV speed route faster in E2M2?

EDIT: Did TNT map 15 in 0:31. Pretty easy, as you said; the monsters at the end are a bit tricky. The zip also includes the wierdest demo I've ever recorded, probably. As I exit the map with very low health, I get hit, and should die, but the engine does not indicate a health loss -- rather, I exit the map. However, I extended the demo a bit (through TAS) to stretch over map 16, and there you can see that I *did* die. I can't figure out what's going on.

EDIT # 2: Thanks for reminding me of how to speedrun properly, Grazza. 10 seconds of improvement on the first try is rare... ;-) And I agree that it looks more impressive the "old" way, and I'm not sure time is what counts most when recording a category such as this...

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 01-03-05 at 21:47

01-03-05 18:25 #

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Grazza
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Yeah, that's the same reason I didn't bother with E3M6.

Ev15 is easier if you punch the air in the room with the three spectres (I did a 0:32 that way), but somehow I feel that avoiding even punching the air (as you did it) is slightly more in line with the strolling idea (though not mandatory). Maybe that can be termed "pure strolling".

Yes, you can press an exit switch and die in the same gametic. I have had this happen quite a few times, and recall first(?) seeing it in a speedrun by Opulent on Perdition's Gate (Mayberry) map04.

It's funny how noticeable the speed boost is when a monster hits you when strolling. When a manc hit me on ev15, it felt more like an archie boost.

Actually, I'd forgotten that that wasn't the standard E2M2 single-map speed route, and hadn't checked. I just used the route I remembered from NM movie runs. Maybe not a huge difference though, unless you're really trying to optimize it.

I've been trying to do a stroller on HR. No luck so far - map10 needs skill than I have so far mustered, and map26 needs more luck than I've had so far (I did have one run when I was on the exit podium, but was firmly blocked by revenants).

01-03-05 20:06 #

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Grazza
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Updated my zip with a few more strollers. Mostly fairly easy ones, but I made an effort to get the times quite low.

The following four are new:
HR map01 in 0:20
Scythe map01 in 0:20
Scythe map11 in 0:08
Scythe map23 in 0:05

I tried without success on the following: sc26, hr10, hr21 (OK, that was a stupid idea), hr24, hr26, lv15, m209 (not actually sure the caco-assisted exit slide is possible when strolling), e3m8.

e3m2 can be added to the "so trivial it's hardly worth bothering" list.

I'm not sure all this strolling is much good for your Doom. I've been finding it hard to control the marine when reverting to normal speed.

BTW, when looking for candidate maps for strolling, it struck me as odd that the compet-n pacifists on hr19 (by Opulent and AdamH) feature the player activating the crusher at the start (killing a bunch of lost souls). How can that be pacifist, especially given that it is avoidable?

01-05-05 19:24 #

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Kristian Ronge
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Grazza said:
Updated my zip with a few more strollers. Mostly fairly easy ones, but I made an effort to get the times quite low.

Neat-o! I'll be looking forward to watching them when I have the time. :-)

I actually tried HR map 1 several times and never got past the berserk room. I also tried HR map 26, got onto the ledge three times, but never reached the exit. I still haven't really given up on it, though.

E3M8 should be possible as well, but it's 99% luck even with full speed and strafing, so...

I'm not sure all this strolling is much good for your Doom. I've been finding it hard to control the marine when reverting to normal speed.

Funny you shoyld mention it, I noticed the same thing myself. And I also developed a theory as to why you get so good times when strolling (e.g. 0:48 in map 18, "translated" to 0:24 with normal speed *without* strafing, 1:08 in map 31, "translated" to 0:34, 0:20 in E1M1 and Scythe map 1, "translated" to 0:10, etc.). It's because you can cut corners really tight; no movement is wasted, plus you can react to enemies in superior fashion since you close in on them so slowly. When you go back to normal speed, you have gotten a bit used to planning your turns much more slowly and preparing more for monster encounters.

It's interesting about the pacifist runs on HR map 19. If you're correct (and I have no doubts that you are, BTW) then of course those runs aren't pacifist.

01-06-05 12:14 #

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Searcher
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Granted lost souls are "monsters", but since they do not add to the kill count maybe that is why it is allowed. Just guessing here.

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01-06-05 17:01 #

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xit-vono
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Well while the rules of pacifist prohibit use of weapons to harm monsters either directly or indirectly, the rules against crushers and telefrags are much more fuzzy. Basically you can't use crushers or telefrags as a method to get rid of monsters, but if you happen to activate a crusher that kills monsters that's ok. In this case the player wants to take the megasphere, and the souls are crushed as a result.

01-06-05 17:31 #

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Kristian Ronge
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True, but Grazza made an excellent point: it is *avoidable*. And therefore I see no difference between that behaviour, and intentional telefragging, for example. Still, this is sort of a grey area, since the souls are all completely outside the playing field and never pose a threat to the player.

And Gene: Lost Souls don't count towards kill percentage, yes; however, that doesn't mean you can kill them any more than the other monsters, since they do pose a threat to you and can hurt you if you don't kill them.

And speaking of absolutely nothing, here's another strolling demo, Scythe map 2 in 0:31. The last hallway was kind of hard, the rest was a breeze.

01-07-05 15:01 #

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Grazza
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Kristian Ronge said:
it is *avoidable*. And therefore I see no difference between that behaviour, and intentional telefragging, for example.

I recall from ep29 (see Altima's ep29-532.txt and Vile's ep29-435.txt) that even avoidable unintentional telefrags may not be allowable - i.e. if it is possible to make sure the teleport destination is empty before stepping onto it, then if you fail to do so, and accidentally telefrag something, then it isn't pacifist. Or something like that.

Still, this is sort of a grey area, since the souls are all completely outside the playing field and never pose a threat to the player.

On hr19 it could certainly be argued that the inaccessible lost souls are just used as a mapping trick, and this is the sort of thing where a special ruling might be appropriate. I didn't find anything of that type from a quick search of the compet-n forums though. Personally, my instinct is to regard it as definitely not pacifist to crush them though.

Edit:

Kristian Ronge said:
here's another strolling demo, Scythe map 2 in 0:31.

Nice. There's a slip-up in the text-file though: this isn't a Zdoom 1.22 demo - it's Doom2.exe-format.

01-07-05 18:37 #

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VinceDSS
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surprisingly I found myself recording some "Stroller" demos.
Got bored rather quick though ...

E1M4 in 1:31 = long route with sphere + armor, possible w/o these but I dont want to bother
E2M9 in 0:18 = trivial
E2M2 in 0:28 = still bad
E3M2 in 0:30 = lousy too

didnt feel like improving anything

let me know who I should mail demos, if anybody is interested :)

01-07-05 22:22 #

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Searcher
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Vince, gosh yes we want to see them.

Zip and send them over to Grazza or Opulent and he can post them.

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01-07-05 22:39 #

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Schneelocke
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Searcher said:
Vince, gosh yes we want to see them.

Zip and send them over to Grazza or Opulent and he can post them.

Agreed. Do send them so we can watch them! :)

01-07-05 22:46 #

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Grazza
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VinceDSS said:
surprisingly I found myself recording some "Stroller" demos.
...
let me know who I should mail demos, if anybody is interested :)

Yeah, given that you've spent the time making them, we might as well watch them.

VinceDSS said:
Got bored rather quick though ...

I'd have to agree that this category is kind of limited strategically, as the player has very few degrees of freedom. Most of the time you're just walking forward and wiggling the mouse around.

Anyway, I added a stroller on Evilution (tnt.wad) map11 to my zip. The time is 0:43, which doesn't seem too bad given that the compet-n pacifist record is 0:21 and much of the route is unobstructed running.

01-08-05 14:44 #

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Kristian Ronge
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Grazza said:
There's a slip-up in the text-file though: this isn't a Zdoom 1.22 demo - it's Doom2.exe-format.

Noted, and I will correct it as soon as possible. I got some things confused as a result of changing my .txt templates to reflect in-span's (upcoming) disappearance. Thanks for pointing it out.

01-08-05 15:37 #

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Grazza
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I did a bit more mouse wiggling, and added a stroller on Evilution map17 to teh zip. This is certainly the hardest stroller I've done, and took quite a number of attempts. I think it should be fun to watch too.

I wonder if it was with strolling in mind that TeamTNT put the invulnerability sphere in this map. Hard to see why it's there otherwise. :p (Well, OK, it's useful in NM too.)

01-08-05 18:56 #

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Kristian Ronge
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I really liked ev17, Graham. It was sweet, especially the way you handled the blue key room. :-)

I did three more:

TNT map 22 in 0:30 (very easy, but I think the time is very good also..)
E3M6 in 0:19 (Sucky time, sort of, and completely trivial, but hey, if Vince can do E2M9 and E3M2, then ... ;-P)
E3M8 in 1:24 (an absolute nightmare to record, you need so much luck it's ridiculous!)

Heh, maybe we should pack it all up into one compilation -- once we get Vince's runs. :-)

01-09-05 20:09 #

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Grazza
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E3M8 was cool. There's just something poetic and majestic about a stuck mastermind. So how about E1M8 next? :p

Kristian Ronge said:
I really liked ev17, Graham. It was sweet, especially the way you handled the blue key room. :-)

Yes, I was rather happy with it too. For once, all the monsters had read the script. Come to think of it, they followed an even better script than I had intended. I particularly like the Pathetic Revenant Brothers (use the walkcam to see just how useless they manage to be). I'd made it out of the blue key room only twice before, but with woefully inadequate health (and having even used the "emergency" medikit in the outdoor area). If after all that I'd ended up dying on top of the invulnerability, I think I would have just broken down and wept. :)

Heh, maybe we should pack it all up into one compilation -- once we get Vince's runs. :-)

Sure, feel free. I think a natural point at which to do so is when we've pretty much exhausted all the readily feasible iwad maps. But even if we haven't reached that point, it would be convenient to have them all in one zip, with consistent file-names and stuff.

I've added two more pwad strollers:

Community Chest 2 map01 in 0:36. Another of these surprisingly quick strollers.
STRAIN map01 in 1:18. Lots of hitscan enemies to ~~run~~ walk past, but fortunately they miss rather often. The finish is quite nice.

BTW, Requiem has some easy maps for strolling: 01, 20, 26 and 32.

01-10-05 02:58 #

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Schneelocke
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Kristian Ronge said:
E3M8 in 1:24 (an absolute nightmare to record, you need so much luck it's ridiculous!)

That one was just great. :)

01-10-05 11:41 #

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Kristian Ronge
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Thanks for the positive comments!

Grazza said:
So how about E1M8 next? :p

Heh, and steal all the fun stuff from you? :-P

BTW, Requiem has some easy maps for strolling: 01, 20, 26 and 32.

Did two of them:
Requiem map 1 in 0:25, and Requiem map 20 in 0:20.

I'm especially delighted about the map 20 run. I'll leave the two others to someone else, I think (I don't care for them much).

01-10-05 17:14 #

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Searcher
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Kristian E3M8 was just great. It was sweet to watch the mastermind get stuck there, and killed.

I am just loving all these demos guys. Nice job!

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01-10-05 17:35 #

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Kristian Ronge
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Thank you very much, Gene! I'm glad you like them.

I went ahead and made another one, E2M1 in 1:18. Not quite as good as most of the others, but another IWAD map done, at least.

Ah, and before I forget again: Graham, that CC2 map 1 run was very classy stuff. Keep 'em coming!

01-10-05 21:22 #

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Grazza
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Kristian Ronge said:
Keep 'em coming!

OK... added Requiem map26 (0:14) and map32 (0:25). Silly little demos on silly little maps. My target was just to get them to less than twice the compet-n pacifist times (taking milliseconds into account). [As an aside, I wonder why are they called "milliseconds" when they're only two decimal places.]

I took a look at a few of the E2 maps. E2M3 is OK up to the room with the lost souls and imps, which I haven't got past (lack of speed is a problem). E2M4 is easy right up to the little exit room, which is of course possible, but needs a lot of luck - the lack of strafing makes it trickier than normal. I did a nomonsters stroller on E2M7 to show off a rocket-assisted key-grab (you'd use a strafe-run to grab it in a standard demo). [Edit: I see that this trick dates back to DDQ, but of course that wasn't with the strolling restriction.] I'd be surprised if this map can be done stroller-style with monsters though.