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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


Posts: 1820
Registered: 11-03


Silence = approval, I guess :-P so I just need everyone's comments. You can send them to me via PM, e-mail (found in any of my .txts) or just make a post in this thread with them. I'll be going away for Christmas but I'll return home before New Year's Eve, so I'll compile everything when I get back. In case you're wondering what runs of yours I'm including, I will include in the pack every fastest run regardless of style. Just take a look in the thread to see what you did. :-) The UV speed and UV max tables (found in the first post of the thread) should help, too, if you did any of those. Thanks!

Old Post 12-22-06 22:20 #
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Anima Zero
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Posts: 459
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I've been busy lately, so yeah, I haven't said much. That being said, I have a small improvement to my E2M9 UV -fast. It's now at 2:21. I would have liked to go a couple more seconds faster, but the infighting can go poorly often. This will be sent off to Ops after finishing my comments.

Demopack Comments
-----------------
Well, here we are at the end of another demopack. I don't think I've ever seen any Doom 1/Ultimate Doom Megawads until I tried this one out. It's certainly not the best wad out there since some levels are less then stellar or have bad gameplay choices (E2M8 BK room anyone?). On the plus side though, you have maps like E1M9, E2M3, and E2M9. All of those and several more are actually quite fun to play through. All in all, this is not that bad of a wad and should be worth a playthru or two at least.

But, the real reason you're all here...the demos. I actually don't have as many demos in this pack compared to previously released packs. Some just got beaten, but it's mostly due to focusing on a select few levels and getting burnt out afterwards (E2M8 is a prime example).

Anyways, as for best demos...I don't normally call out my own demos, but my E2M6 UV-Speed is a personal favourite of mine. It might not be the absolute best for the level, but it is my very first demo as a mouser, and that means a lot to me :).

Other demos...well, just watch them all, since I always have a tough time choosing demos that I like here.

E1M9(Max)
---------
Fun way to start off this pack for me. It's a non-linear level since you can decide in which order to tackle the three areas. Each one has two switches in it. All 6 need to be pressed to reveal some flaming panels at the start of the level. Shoot those 6 panels and the exit opens up.

The problem though...ammo. You have to be careful not to miss too much or you'll be left with nothing to clear out the last 3 barons except for a chainsaw, and that's not exactly going to be useful on them.

Otherwise, using the right weapon at the right time should keep your ammo reserves in fairly good shape. One imp wandered down into the first area I visit, so I had to waste time at the end to go hunt it down. The demo went fairly well otherwise though.

E2M3(Max)
---------
Another fun map IMO. There are no parts of the map I disliked and it flows well. Problem once again arises in the form of ammo. You're going to want to cause some infighting between some cacos and barons early on if you want to have enough rockets/shells to clean house here. One trick is utilized here to save some time, but otherwise getting out in one piece is of no trouble here. I'm a little miffed that I missed the sub 3 mark, given the mistakes in this run.

E2M6(Max)
---------
Another fine map here to blast through. Ammo isn't quite as tight as E1M9 and E2M3, but you still want to save your rockets and plasma ammo for wiping out the enemy horde awaiting you in the central area as you make way to the exit. Not my best demo in the pack due to some ugly spots. Close call near the end.

E2M8(Max)
---------
Ok, this is where I draw the line between fun and just plain annoying. My main beef here is the BK room. I'm not going to understand the author's reasoning for placing 30+ lost souls in this room. All they do is royally piss off the player and/or demo recorder. In this case, me. Setting that aside though, the rest of the level is largely a BFG blastfest once you pick it up.

The real challenge lies in none other than the BK room. Doing it quickly while not getting screwed by the souls is a very tough task indeed. Going with the RL to clear out souls in my way was risky. We all know how fun it is to have a soul in your face as you fire a rocket, but this was the fastest way to clear them out and was giving me a better success rate to get outta this room. I had one mistake in this room occur due to the RL and got lucky when I was to exit this room.

The rest of the level's strat consists of getting the BFG as soon as possible, then using it and the many cells here to clean house. You do want to save around 300-400 cells for the final area though. The 2 cybies here are easy to take out, but saving some time can be tricky if you're not aware of what to do. The trick is shown in Kristian's speedrun for this level, but you blast one cybie for awhile, then switch to the other and let the tracers kill off the weakened one just as the other cybie bites it. Can save a few seconds if done right. One of my best demos for the pack I'd say.

E3M1(Max)
--------
Small map, but nothing to complain about here except, you guessed it, ammo. It's even tighter than E1M9 and E2M3. Run out of bullet ammo and you'll be left with nothing effective to kill the remaining enemies. Don't even think about killing the souls. Waste of ammo and time there. Thankfully, everything went quite well here and I had bullets to spare at the end. This and my E2M8 Max are my best maxers in this pack IMO.

E2M9(UV-fast)
-------------
Came about as a result of watching Kristian's maxdemo and wanting to try my own run, but adding on -fast for some extra challenge. This makes infighting easy to occur in the first area, but also easy to get pasted very quickly, especially by the MM. Two tricks here involving hitting switches to release the barons early and start up the infighting. Have to hope the MM does a number on the barons in order to get a good time here. IF you can get to the other side of the level, things get a bit easier, but still, those SG'ers can fill you full of holes very quickly, especially if your health is low. Still risky after heading thru the YK door back to the first open area since the imps have an easy target at you in that small corridor.

Otherwise, getting out of the first area and surviving the second area in one piece is the toughest part of the level. Would have liked to have a 2:19 or better at least, but the infighting really has to go well in order for that to happen.

E1M9(UV-Speed)
--------------
No tricks to show off here, so this just ends up being a little on the boring side in terms of watching. Ugly though, as there are a few sore spots in the demo.

E2M6(UV-Speed)
--------------
As I've said before, this is a personal favourite of mine due to the fact it's my first ever demo as a mouser. I can thank my experience with Hexen for that, as that's where most of my skill with the mouse developed.

But anyways, for this run, much luck is needed to not get blocked by imps, barons, what have you. Not the fastest, as something around 0:47 or so is possible, but I was getting fed up trying to improve it, given the luck I needed.

E3M8(UV-Speed)
--------------
Not really the best demo of mine, but this level is a bit ugly in the gameplay department, so...yeah. The mistakes don't start becoming obvious til I deal with the 2nd MM. Feel free to cringe there. Final 2 MMs are dealt with in the same fashion as the E2M8 cybies.

So...there ya go. Feel free to trim down any of the comments if they're too long.

Old Post 12-23-06 13:14 #
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Opulent
Moderator


Posts: 2093
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Anima:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/x2t9f221.zip

Old Post 12-23-06 17:24 #
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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


Posts: 1820
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Thanks a million, Brian!

... Nobody else has had time to reply? :-(
Looks like the Dec. 31st release date will be tough to meet.

Old Post 12-29-06 11:45 #
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Grazza
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Posts: 9751
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I have e-mailed my text comments to you. I would have done it earlier, but I read your previous comment to mean that you wouldn't be back until just before New Year.

Old Post 12-30-06 19:34 #
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cack_handed
Green Marine


Posts: 36
Registered: 03-06


I finally got round to writing up my comments, hope it's not too late...

-------------------------

Mostly I don't enjoy pwads for Doom 1 very much as they seem to run short of ideas very quickly and you're left with repetitive lightweight non-SSG gameplay. But in Extremal it's surprising how varied the maps and gameplay are. It's good that the author had the self-discipline to keep the maps small, the architecture and atmosphere are decent if a bit drab sometimes, and there's plenty of enjoyably tough close-quarters fighting with limited ammo.

The downside is that you can often empty the rooms of monsters quickly, and spend too much time just running around chasing after switches which you don't quite understand the working of, and end up quitting out of motion sickness and frustration. So I've only actually played through the whole thing once, and then returned to a few maps when watching demos captured my interest. There's just three demos from me here - I wish I could have motivated myself to do more as with these small maps it only takes a couple of hours to produce something respectable once you get into the swing of things.

E1M7 Speed

This seemed one of the tougher maps when I first played it, very dark and disorientating and I was glad to get it over with, so it feels good to end up "owning" it by defying all the author's intentions.

The three different glide tricks here were all worked out by Grazza, who did 0:39 skipping the third one as it seemed intractable at the time. You've got to be a bit insane to try recording this sort of thing, but I was determined to get this third glide to work, and in the end it didn't seem so hard after all. The first fence glide is the real pig, needing nothing but luck and limitless persistence, but technically it's very interesting... The second is a routine bar glide, take the right-hand gap and align your pistol with the yellow spot on the wall - easy but watch that Pinky doesn't bite you! Then trust to luck as you dash past Cybie (don't worry too much, the pegleg's probably too busy walking in circles to notice you) and finally you're at glide number three. This is a straight-wall / diagonal-rock squeeze, and feels a bit odd as you tend to be pushed back as you try to edge forward, but line yourself up by pointing your shotgun at a select pixel of the floor texture, ignore the incoming flak and you've a fair chance of getting through before being toasted or running out of time. A time of under 30 seconds is possible here.

E3M2 Max

Just a table filler for this one. A fairly easy map, though the blue key area can be tough if you're trying to be quick. Ammo is in short supply, and the main challenge is how to use it wisely - once or twice I ended up non-beserk-punching out an imp to get at the exit switch. The spoiler is the central moving platform - it's possible to time your run to sync with this, but I couldn't be bothered trying and wasted a lot of time waiting for it at the end.

E3M7 Speed

I did this to try out an exit barglide that Kristian pointed out. It's a typical dark, intense and cramped Extremal map, difficult to speed as you tend to bump the walls and slide all over the steps in the floor. Having the glide right at the end is a great way of ruining a fast run, but my success rate was fairly good. I never got the hang of triggering those crushers at the end, so some room for improvement there.

Old Post 12-31-06 08:11 #
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Gusta
Member


Posts: 473
Registered: 02-04


I am sorry, I was out. I will send my comments today :-)

Edit: well I hope that I didn't forget anything.

General comments
****************

Extremal doom is very good one-man project with its own identity both in map layouts
and the gameplay. The maps were planned to be completable from scratch with very tight
ammo balance so you have to spare your ammo and use all weapons including also chainsaw
very wisely. Some of the maps are really good and fun play, some of them are boring and
annoying with rather repeptitive gameplay. But also some very nice ideas will immediately
write into in your memory forever, perhaps everybody finds some favorities in this wad.
All credits goes to Kristian who started to work on this demopack and held the project
being active for all the time. I joined the team rather lately when most of the demos were
already done and recorded just something on my favourite maps. Then I decided to help
with some least popular maps that have been staying undone yet. Many of them were rather
uncomfortable to record on so my demos there are quite average. But well at least they
are done. All in all this demopack is as good quality as the maps deserves so thanks
all guys for their demos and thanks to Mike Iljyn for extremal doom. Enjoy the demos!


UV max demos
************

E2M1
----
This is very nice and well playable map that immediately took me up just because I was
looking for some funny tyson map to play and as I saw in Anima's previous demo this one
would be a good choice. And it was! After doing a tyson demo for it I also tried a max
and used a route mostly invented by Anima so credits to him! It was good fun to play
so I gave it more tries to get as good time as I could do.

E2M5
----
This map stayed undone for a long time so I decided to try it. Perhaps the main trouble
was to fet all 100% kills effectively. because you don't have enough rockets for the last
fight so a good monster infights come in handy. The tactic I used proved to be the best
one. At the end I am waiting for some group of imps to be crushed, I played without sound
so the timing was just my guess.

E2M7
----
I didn't like to play this map so much when I did my first exit in 4:03, but then after
a few tries it became enjoyable a bit. So it was worth of trying to beat 4 mins barrier,
I got even below 3:30 with my second exit. this map became something special for me just
when i tried to do a speed for it.


E3M3
----
This map has some nice design ellements but it's damn boring to play. Those long empty
halls needs to be filled in! Yes, thats a truth, I didn't have any reason to spend more
time on work on this demo, it was boredom.


E3M4
----
This map looked kinda inconspicuous and also stayed undone for some time but it came to
light that this was a very good fun to play, I liked it so i gave it some effort at least
to break 4mins barrier. But again it has very needless secrets that you get just at the
end and for nothing.


E3M5
----
Very good layout, cool gameplay and design - space theme, thats all that makea good overall
feeling from playing this map. You have to use the ammo very cautiously. If you waste too
much you will have nothing to kill the last barons - thats quite repetitive motive in
extremal doom overall. But as I said i liked playing this map and the fact that you have
to use also chainsaw to spare some ammo is nothing that should bother me!


E3M6
----
For the first sight the map looks interesting but its layout is quite unsuccessful. For
example: you will take rocket launcher secret and than you have to go aroud the same way
that you have already did. The same case is after killing the cyber and taking the red
keycard: you simply have to walk around the half of the map again. Getting yellow card
is also some annoying thing. But for some reason I kinda liked playuing this map :-)


E3M8
----
True tablefiller, maybe only interesting thing is that I telefragged one of the barons.
I had some goes to get BFG earlier and then waste 2 shots on cacos but I was killed
everytime so gave this idea up and just went through using natural route.
Cool idea for the last map anyway. But the gameplay is not too great for UVmax play.


E3M9
----
This is great map, short, quick and very interesting idea: going through the dark on the
invisible platforms markend out by sutrrounding lights. The last small room with one
stucked imp that could be killed just by rocket splash damage is somehow needless but
that doesn't annoy me too much. Great map and credits to anima for the route.


UV speed demos
**************

E2M5 secret exit
----------------
So or so comparable to Grazza's normal exit run.
Luckily, everything went pretty well then ecspecially the crowded normal exit room
went perfectly. Pity that the last cacodemons blocked me on the way to secret exit
but well, it's still my best time.

E2M7
----
I am really happy that I did it! Well the demo is not so spectacular in any way
but it really needs a luck to let cyber demon being distracted by some monster for long
enough while that you could go around him to press the first switch then wait to stairs
till it rise up and then wait till the 30 secs door open. It was quite an experience to
complete this run I have to say.


E3M4
----
This is map is very good for max play and also fun for speed through, that means
great map overall, my favourite one from extremal doom indeed. My first exit was
2:01 so I am satisfied with this time. It wasn't so easy due to cacodemons
around the lift who are always quite unpredictable and break most of the tries.


E3M6
----
This run is nearly same as secret exit run so I don't have much else to say about it :)

E3M6 secret exit
----------------
This run is nearly same as normal exit run so I don't have much else to say about it :)



E2M1 pacifist
-------------
This run was much harder than it looks, it took me maybe 4 hours to get one exit.
squeezing for both keys and back and surviving body contact from all imps, is that what's
going on here. There are also two imps above the top of the lift they're
also annoying. Well, "two imps" that doesn't sound too bad but if they can easily hurt
you from above and you can do nothing about that.
In this run one imp exactly got me from above when I was on the lift and i had 35%
health then so i thought it would be a miracle if I get just to red key. But then
more miracles happened and I was highly surprised that I am exiting.

E3M9 tyson
------------
I made this for fun. this is very cool map, except the unneeded bugs at exit place.
So I haven't killed the one stucked imp that is not possible to catch except of using
rocket-splash.

E2M1 tyson
------------
Cool map, this run is just sawing from start to end, no tactic or something :)
The demo is OK, I was just nervous like hell when I was sawing last 3 imps, he he :)

Last edited by Gusta on 01-01-07 at 20:49

Old Post 01-01-07 18:10 #
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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


Posts: 1820
Registered: 11-03


Thank you so much! I will give DeDo and Phil a little time to write something, too, if they like (I don't think they frequent the forums as much as we'd like them to ;-D).

Old Post 01-01-07 22:26 #
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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


Posts: 10458
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Kristian Ronge said:
I don't think they frequent the forums as much as we'd like them to
True; you might want to try email to speed things up, if you haven't. DeDo's seems consistent lately, while Phil used two (the more recent one on Hotmail).

Old Post 01-01-07 23:35 #
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Opulent
Moderator


Posts: 2093
Registered: 07-01


Gusta updates:
don't know if this is part of this or not...

http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/x2t1p104.zip

Old Post 01-02-07 04:16 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Posts: 1820
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It certainly is... :-)
(I've already included it, because Gusta sent it to me privately, too)
BTW, Doug, would you like to include your comments, too? :-D

Oh, and thanks for the suggestion, Miguel, I've sent them both an e-mail.

Old Post 01-02-07 12:08 #
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DeDo
Mini-Member


Posts: 95
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Sorry about me being late, I didn't pay much attention to the forums lately, too much stuff to do and very little time. I got your e-mail Kristian, I'll write some comments later today when I have time.

/edit:

General Comments:

It's quite rare for a Doom2 map not to have a SSG so I was quite happy to start recording for Extremal Doom where none of the maps have a SSG for obvious reasons. :p. In the end the most memorable moments for me are chainsawing Cacos and using pretty much every weapon most of the time. That was quite refreshing for me. It was interesting to record on maps which have gameplay elements I don't like very much like walking on narrow ledges or very dark rooms but in the end I'm happy I did it. Not having nearly enough Dooming time resulted in only 4 demos from me and even if their quality isn't very high I hope that they will be enjoyed.


E1M3:
A nice small map. Time saved in some places was lost on stupid mistakes on other places. It was here I realized that chainsawing Cacodemons will become my hobby in this wad.

E1M4:
Narrow ledges are and will always be my enemy but the rest of the map made up for it. The timed trap frustrated me a lot as I knew it can be bypassed with a rocket jump but my success rate was too low to even try it in a recorded demo.

E1M6:
This map is a lot of fun to play, demo went well except the end where I stupidly missfired some rockets due to a lack of concentration. Except for that, I'm fairly happy with this.

E1M7:
Too dark for me at times. Without doubt the hardest to finish of the 4 demos I made. Too many things that could go wrong and they usually did. In the end it went quite good but the rocket was unexpected, atleast the ending was interesting. :)

Last edited by DeDo on 01-02-07 at 21:31

Old Post 01-02-07 13:17 #
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Phil1984
Junior Member


Posts: 123
Registered: 12-02


Why thankyou for the email Kristian, I wouldn't have even known this was happening without it!

I assume the lmp that is going in the set is my E1M1 Tyson run? Honestly I don't think it deseveres to be in the pack since it was only a 1st run through, and on top of that my 1st serious attempt at a Tyson run. My greater achievment in this set was finding a faster method of completing E3M1 and pushing Anima Zero to use it to improve his time for the level.

Anyway here is my comment

E1M1 - Tyson

An easy and fun level to Tyson, simply run to the chainsaw and then let loose. It was a fairly smooth run overall however my ending was not particularly well thought out and cost me several seconds. A time of under 3 minutes should easily be achievable.

Old Post 01-03-07 07:40 #
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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


Posts: 1820
Registered: 11-03


Thank you all for your comments. I have now assembled the pack. Get it here ->

Extremal Doom Demo Pack

Be sure to look for the easter egg demos! :-)

Old Post 01-03-07 14:57 #
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Grazza
Quaerere Verum


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I found the eggs. :)

I wouldn't say you're a boring person though.

Old Post 01-03-07 17:39 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Ah, good, you found them. I didn't want to hide them too well, because I think they're fun and interested parties should see them (I thought of cute names, like e.g. x1t1-337.lmp and so on)... this was a good solution, don't you think?

And all right, maybe I'm not boring, but I'm certainly not witty, either.

Old Post 01-03-07 18:09 #
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Gusta
Member


Posts: 473
Registered: 02-04


I found eggs too! But I surely don't know how to extract/playback them :-) noob me
But well, it's cool that another demopack is done and released.

Last edited by Gusta on 01-03-07 at 20:05

Old Post 01-03-07 19:58 #
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Grazza
Quaerere Verum


Posts: 9751
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Gusta said:
But I surely don't know how to extract/playback them :-)
Here's a clue (but not a give-away - it is not identical to the situation described there). Kristian might have had another way in mind of course.

Old Post 01-03-07 21:32 #
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