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emailking
Junior Member


Posts: 138
Registered: 10-04


Ty01 is amazing!

Old Post 06-03-06 15:55 #
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xit-vono
Member


Posts: 423
Registered: 06-01


I'm glad you liked that demo. This one didn't seem too hard, but often I spend lots of time on these shorter demos.

Old Post 06-03-06 18:47 #
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Schneelocke
Forum Regular


Posts: 744
Registered: 06-03


Nice plutonia map29 demos, Xit. Any plans to record a max or -fast for this one, too? :)

Old Post 06-17-06 15:28 #
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Angus Thermopyle
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cack_handed, thx for pl19-021 and av252352. Great stuff :)

Old Post 10-05-06 14:55 #
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Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9603
Registered: 07-02


Yes, it was nice to see the pl19 trick go from a vague idea via "theoretically possible" to "the new compet-n route".

I have added Heretic-N incoming to the first post too.

Old Post 10-14-06 05:35 #
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entryway
Senior Member


Posts: 1169
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Please, add style='background-color: Window;' in all iframe tags of first post here:

code:
<iframe style='background-color: Window;' src=... </iframe>

Because they has a transparent background in Firefox

P.S. Thanks

Last edited by entryway on 11-01-06 at 18:28

Old Post 11-01-06 18:06 #
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rrwoods
Warming Up


Posts: 25
Registered: 10-05


?!

Just watched the pl19-21 demo. This is the first I've seen a 32-unit glide, and I think my reaction will be the same every time:

?!

Seriously, how was this discovered?

Old Post 11-07-06 01:14 #
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Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9603
Registered: 07-02


The fact that the player can get through a 32-unit gap has been known for a long time. I have a feeling someone must have stumbled upon it at some point earlier, but Jonathan Rimmer might have been the first to use this possibility in a demo:
http://www.doom2.net/~compet-n/inde...lg&page=map16-2
http://competn.doom2.net/pub/compet...ed/lv16-023.zip (see the txt for his account of how he discovered the trick)

The well-known ones in Doom2 are in maps 16, 21 (though that's a bit different) and 22. Several others have been used in compet-n demos.

Last year, several of us (Kristian, Gusta, myself and others) did a number of glides through short 32-unit "corridors" (as opposed to a single constriction point), often using a forward-movement-only method. This seemed to give a greater chance of success than straferunning, but I don't think this was a breakthrough in itself - probably it just made it easier for us to line the glides up. But maybe the slower movement speed was also a help, and thus provides a link with these newer glide tricks. The ones we were doing were mostly where you could move along a wall along which at some point there was a 32-unit gap to get through. These generally seemed easier the longer the section of wall leading to the gap was.

What is new this year is that cack_handed has found a way to make these glides less a matter of random luck, and especially shown that some that were thought virtually impossible can in fact be done. These are ones where the geometry is symmetrical - you aren't sliding along a wall towards the gap, but walking straight towards the "jaws" on either side. The technique involves very slow movement. In a demo I built involving such a glide, I found that I had to move at absolute minimum speed (GB1 or GF1 tics) or the glide failed.

In general, the mechanics involved are not fully understood - the investigation has been of a mostly experimental nature. In principle, that it is possible shouldn't be a great surprise - a 32x32 square non-rotatable block fits through a suitably oriented 32-unit-wide gap. Perhaps we should be more surprised that it is difficult, and the question should be what in the Doom engine normally stops the player getting through.

Old Post 11-07-06 01:37 #
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Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9603
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In case anyone hadn't noticed (I don't know how often people tend to check), there is a bunch of new demos (the majority coops) in /incoming/compet-n and /incoming/compet-n/pwads.

Old Post 12-14-06 01:39 #
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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


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I still only check once a day ... ;-D
Aha! The keyboarding brothers -- how nice to see the m209 idea being used.

Old Post 12-14-06 01:57 #
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Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9603
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I noticed something when watching those: a possible 32-unit glide ("hard") through the second set of bars at the exit of E4M4. This would mean pressing one switch fewer.

Old Post 12-14-06 03:06 #
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cack_handed
Green Marine


Posts: 36
Registered: 03-06


Yep, I noticed that one a few weeks ago and have been quietly trying it since. It's a bit hard though! So far I've only managed to equal the record (u4m4-a35.zip), but another thousand or so tries and I should get there...

Old Post 12-14-06 04:56 #
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Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9603
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Sorry for blowing your secret. But since everyone else seems to find these glides too difficult, I can't imagine anyone is likely to nip in before you.

It must have been seriously disappointing when that 0:35 came up on-screen.

Old Post 12-14-06 05:03 #
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cack_handed
Green Marine


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No problem, I'm not worried about getting beaten to it, only about whether I'll ever get to finish it at all. I do sometimes wonder though why we torture ourselves doing these boring and pointless things? Perhaps it's just a welcome relief from having to find something constructive to do instead? Anyway, it certainly gives a warm feeling when the right numbers finally do show up on the screen at the end.

Old Post 12-14-06 06:55 #
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Grazza
omg lolcano


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I think it's just the joy of creating something, which is only enhanced by the difficulty of doing so.

Old Post 12-14-06 08:56 #
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xit-vono
Member


Posts: 423
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I did a maxdemo for this map but there is a problem. Before the boss brain shoots monsters prboom shows 4 monsters alive but there should be only 2 alive. Those monsters are a baron guarding the brain, and an archie that can't be killed. I tried using iddt but could not see any monsters wandering around. Also, what does the switch in the unreachable secret sector do?

Old Post 12-16-06 23:15 #
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Eugene
Mini-Member


Posts: 69
Registered: 11-03


Are you tried Eternity with WalkCam?

Old Post 12-16-06 23:41 #
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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


Posts: 1820
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Adam's rq23-722 shows only 2 monsters unkilled before he reaches the boss brain (and as you can guess, it's the Baron protecting Romero's head-on-a-stick and that hidden Arch-Vile). I suggest you take another look at that demo. It might have something to do with the SS ghosts; Adam mentioned that in the .txt: "Had some trouble killing all 12 ghosts, in fact this was my only try where I managed it". Might be something worth looking into (using a walkcam, as Eugene suggested).

Old Post 12-17-06 00:02 #
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Grazza
omg lolcano


Posts: 9603
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Recent/current versions of prboom-plus and prboom show live monsters in red (as long as they contribute to the monster-count) when using IDDT-IDDT. So that (plus walkcam, which is in prboom-plus) should help you discover where they are.

Old Post 12-17-06 02:18 #
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xit-vono
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Well, I re-did rq23 in 6:33 and this time it is clearly complete.

Old Post 12-17-06 19:49 #
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xit-vono
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I have made a nightmare TAS demo on this map as a test. It was rather easy for a TAS, so I believe it can be done normally.

Old Post 12-19-06 22:15 #
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entryway
Senior Member


Posts: 1169
Registered: 01-04


any demos from xit are rocks

Old Post 12-19-06 23:45 #
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myk
The Disciple of Lüt


Posts: 9975
Registered: 04-02



Grazza said:
I think it's just the joy of creating something, which is only enhanced by the difficulty of doing so.
That certainly applies to rn051004; an extended NM demo with lots of action and techniques for holding the monsters at bay. Tough stuff. One curious thing was when Xit was trying to jump onto the window from the ledge after getting the yellow key, constantly firing the SSG. Plus the music on that level is great.

Old Post 12-25-06 08:23 #
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xit-vono
Member


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Well that SSG shooting is for timing of course, but in that demo I missed twice I think which is pretty embarassing.

Old Post 12-25-06 18:32 #
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xit-vono
Member


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Kristian, I noticed that you made a pacifist for this map, and I thought that a nightmare demo should be possible here. I don't really feel like making a decent demo here so I'll let you try it.

Old Post 12-27-06 20:37 #
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VinceDSS
Senior Member


Posts: 1158
Registered: 11-02


hey Jim, it's been a while I didnt hear form you...

PS : I got your christmas wishes, so I hope you got ours :)

Old Post 12-28-06 04:14 #
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Donce
Member


Posts: 477
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Heh. After reading this, I sat down and tried this map without recording, just to see how it plays. I was quite surprised when I reached the exit :-) Ah, and even skipping the teleporting line worked at the first try. Now I'll just have to sit and record it.

Old Post 12-28-06 08:23 #
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Donce
Member


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OK, so now I recorded it and uploaded to compet-n incoming. It was really easier that I thought; of course, I took the mega and plasme rifle, then I took the soulsphere, and then the rocket launcher. Which wasted much time. But that's probably ok for a hole-filler. Someone will record a better demo :)

Old Post 12-28-06 20:57 #
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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


Posts: 1820
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Heheh, hi Jim! :-)
Still not at home so I can't watch any demos (sorry Donce), but ... yes, mm16 isn't too hard in NM. I love that map. Have you tried map 27 NM? Another awesome map, and it should be a nice challenge.

BTW, I did watch rn05 before I left, one of the best NM demos of the year, surely. An absolute thriller to watch. :-D

Old Post 12-29-06 11:42 #
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xit-vono
Member


Posts: 423
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Good job on mm16 donce. I'm trying to fill holes for mm, mm2 and requiem nightmare. Right now I'd like to do mm07, mm12 and rq23. I haven't looked at mm27, but if you think you can do it go ahead and try. I'm not so familiar with most of the mm and mm2 maps. I'm glad you liked rn05.

Old Post 12-29-06 20:14 #
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