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emailking
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Ty01 is amazing!

Old Post 06-03-06 15:55 #
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xit-vono
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I'm glad you liked that demo. This one didn't seem too hard, but often I spend lots of time on these shorter demos.

Old Post 06-03-06 18:47 #
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Schneelocke
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Nice plutonia map29 demos, Xit. Any plans to record a max or -fast for this one, too? :)

Old Post 06-17-06 15:28 #
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Angus Thermopyle
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cack_handed, thx for pl19-021 and av252352. Great stuff :)

Old Post 10-05-06 14:55 #
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Grazza
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Yes, it was nice to see the pl19 trick go from a vague idea via "theoretically possible" to "the new compet-n route".

I have added Heretic-N incoming to the first post too.

Old Post 10-14-06 05:35 #
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Grazza
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On the subject of 32-unit glides, I spotted a few more possibilities in Plutonia (not verified, but they ought to be feasible I think):
  • map08: between the bars near the exit. This should be a fair bit quicker than the RJ around them used by Sedlo in his TAS 15pl0723, and ought to be viable for standard demos too.
  • map09: get just the blue key and glide through the 32-unit gap.
  • map13: skip the blue key and use two glides around the outside of the frame of the blue-key door. Not useful in standard play, I imagine.

Old Post 10-31-06 02:06 #
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cack_handed
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Grazza said:
  • map08: between the bars near the exit.

I've just given this a try and it turns out to be an easy one: pl08p023.zip. Looks like another candidate for a stroller ;-)

As for the others, Map09 I tried hard at a few weeks ago but couldn't get through once. I just tried out the Map13 ones and succeeded on the right-hand side of the door both ways. These were quite hard and sadly there's no demo as when I got out I realised I'd gone and forgotten to flip that switch :-(

Old Post 10-31-06 06:42 #
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Kristian Ronge
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2006 is truly the "year of the glide".... :-) I found another one on HR map 8 a couple of days ago. Check COMPET-N's /incoming.

I have also discovered several others in the COMPET-N PWADs. Perhaps we should make a thread on tips and ideas for tricks?

Old Post 10-31-06 16:15 #
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Grazza
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Kristian Ronge said:
Perhaps we should make a thread on tips and ideas for tricks?
Maybe, though I have a feeling it might just end up as another misc demos thread. Unless it were stated that it was a thread just for the posting of specific trick ideas - kind of like a concentrated repository of reference info, with relatively little chat getting in the way.

Anyway, Evilution map17 features a 32-unit gap between the bars at the exit. This would lead to a big time improvement.

Old Post 11-01-06 16:37 #
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entryway
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Please, add style='background-color: Window;' in all iframe tags of first post here:

code:
<iframe style='background-color: Window;' src=... </iframe>

Because they has a transparent background in Firefox

P.S. Thanks

Last edited by entryway on 11-01-06 at 18:28

Old Post 11-01-06 18:06 #
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Gusta
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cack-handed: Your glide technique invention made a good revolution of finding new tricks in IWADS and PWADS that were thought to be impossible. Grats for that! I would never expect it. Giving just another example for you ... 1024.wad map16?

Old Post 11-02-06 09:35 #
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rrwoods
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?!

Just watched the pl19-21 demo. This is the first I've seen a 32-unit glide, and I think my reaction will be the same every time:

?!

Seriously, how was this discovered?

Old Post 11-07-06 01:14 #
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Grazza
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The fact that the player can get through a 32-unit gap has been known for a long time. I have a feeling someone must have stumbled upon it at some point earlier, but Jonathan Rimmer might have been the first to use this possibility in a demo:
http://www.doom2.net/~compet-n/inde...lg&page=map16-2
http://competn.doom2.net/pub/compet...ed/lv16-023.zip (see the txt for his account of how he discovered the trick)

The well-known ones in Doom2 are in maps 16, 21 (though that's a bit different) and 22. Several others have been used in compet-n demos.

Last year, several of us (Kristian, Gusta, myself and others) did a number of glides through short 32-unit "corridors" (as opposed to a single constriction point), often using a forward-movement-only method. This seemed to give a greater chance of success than straferunning, but I don't think this was a breakthrough in itself - probably it just made it easier for us to line the glides up. But maybe the slower movement speed was also a help, and thus provides a link with these newer glide tricks. The ones we were doing were mostly where you could move along a wall along which at some point there was a 32-unit gap to get through. These generally seemed easier the longer the section of wall leading to the gap was.

What is new this year is that cack_handed has found a way to make these glides less a matter of random luck, and especially shown that some that were thought virtually impossible can in fact be done. These are ones where the geometry is symmetrical - you aren't sliding along a wall towards the gap, but walking straight towards the "jaws" on either side. The technique involves very slow movement. In a demo I built involving such a glide, I found that I had to move at absolute minimum speed (GB1 or GF1 tics) or the glide failed.

In general, the mechanics involved are not fully understood - the investigation has been of a mostly experimental nature. In principle, that it is possible shouldn't be a great surprise - a 32x32 square non-rotatable block fits through a suitably oriented 32-unit-wide gap. Perhaps we should be more surprised that it is difficult, and the question should be what in the Doom engine normally stops the player getting through.

Old Post 11-07-06 01:37 #
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xit-vono
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look at plutonia map23 for a possible glide at the end.

Old Post 11-11-06 03:42 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Do you mean sector 244 in map 23? (The red bars at the very end are only 24 units apart) That glide doesn't save much time, but it makes the run slightly easier. It's a very easy glide.

Old Post 11-11-06 11:51 #
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xit-vono
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I was thinking the red bars, but they do seem more narrow than a possible glide would be.

Old Post 11-11-06 17:42 #
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Grazza
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Yes, I've wasted plenty of time trying to glide through <32 unit gaps, before I learnt always the check the exact width.

BTW, there are some 32-unit glides possible in av24 (the "easy" kind), but whether they would lead to a faster time, I'm not at all sure. They are around coords (432,552) and (272,392) - the former needs to be done twice and would be the basis for the new route (skipping the yellow key), and the latter is optional.

Old Post 11-12-06 02:22 #
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Grazza
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In case anyone hadn't noticed (I don't know how often people tend to check), there is a bunch of new demos (the majority coops) in /incoming/compet-n and /incoming/compet-n/pwads.

Old Post 12-14-06 01:39 #
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Kristian Ronge
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I still only check once a day ... ;-D
Aha! The keyboarding brothers -- how nice to see the m209 idea being used.

Old Post 12-14-06 01:57 #
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Grazza
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I noticed something when watching those: a possible 32-unit glide ("hard") through the second set of bars at the exit of E4M4. This would mean pressing one switch fewer.

Old Post 12-14-06 03:06 #
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cack_handed
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Yep, I noticed that one a few weeks ago and have been quietly trying it since. It's a bit hard though! So far I've only managed to equal the record (u4m4-a35.zip), but another thousand or so tries and I should get there...

Old Post 12-14-06 04:56 #
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Grazza
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Sorry for blowing your secret. But since everyone else seems to find these glides too difficult, I can't imagine anyone is likely to nip in before you.

It must have been seriously disappointing when that 0:35 came up on-screen.

Old Post 12-14-06 05:03 #
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cack_handed
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No problem, I'm not worried about getting beaten to it, only about whether I'll ever get to finish it at all. I do sometimes wonder though why we torture ourselves doing these boring and pointless things? Perhaps it's just a welcome relief from having to find something constructive to do instead? Anyway, it certainly gives a warm feeling when the right numbers finally do show up on the screen at the end.

Old Post 12-14-06 06:55 #
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Grazza
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I think it's just the joy of creating something, which is only enhanced by the difficulty of doing so.

Old Post 12-14-06 08:56 #
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xit-vono
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I did a maxdemo for this map but there is a problem. Before the boss brain shoots monsters prboom shows 4 monsters alive but there should be only 2 alive. Those monsters are a baron guarding the brain, and an archie that can't be killed. I tried using iddt but could not see any monsters wandering around. Also, what does the switch in the unreachable secret sector do?

Old Post 12-16-06 23:15 #
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Eugene
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Are you tried Eternity with WalkCam?

Old Post 12-16-06 23:41 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Adam's rq23-722 shows only 2 monsters unkilled before he reaches the boss brain (and as you can guess, it's the Baron protecting Romero's head-on-a-stick and that hidden Arch-Vile). I suggest you take another look at that demo. It might have something to do with the SS ghosts; Adam mentioned that in the .txt: "Had some trouble killing all 12 ghosts, in fact this was my only try where I managed it". Might be something worth looking into (using a walkcam, as Eugene suggested).

Old Post 12-17-06 00:02 #
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Grazza
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Recent/current versions of prboom-plus and prboom show live monsters in red (as long as they contribute to the monster-count) when using IDDT-IDDT. So that (plus walkcam, which is in prboom-plus) should help you discover where they are.

Old Post 12-17-06 02:18 #
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xit-vono
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Well, I re-did rq23 in 6:33 and this time it is clearly complete.

Old Post 12-17-06 19:49 #
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xit-vono
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I have made a nightmare TAS demo on this map as a test. It was rather easy for a TAS, so I believe it can be done normally.

Old Post 12-19-06 22:15 #
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