New tricks (built demos)

New tricks for Doom 2 are not so common these days, but here is one on level 3. It's a very hard jump and I did it in a built coop nomonsters demo, because I didn't want to make it harder.
Final time : 13 seconds !
By the way, how do you name such a demo ?
Is it cb03-013 ? or bo03c013 ? or co03b013 ? ;)
I opted for bt03c013 which makes it clear enough that it's built.

Demo sent to Opulent.

Syl said:

New tricks for Doom 2 are not so common these days, but here is one on level 3. It's a very hard jump and I did it in a built coop nomonsters demo, because I didn't want to make it harder.
Final time : 13 seconds !
By the way, how do you name such a demo ?
Is it cb03-013 ? or bo03c013 ? or co03b013 ? ;)
I opted for bt03c013 which makes it clear enough that it's built.

Demo sent to Opulent.

cbt3-013? ;) Seriously, though, looking forward to it... :)

Is it possible in single player mode? Cameron mentioned that he wanted to get 13 in his build movie but he couldn't get the trick so it sounds like you have something similar.

not possible in single-player(okay, theoretically possible, but getting a zombieman to behave would be unlikely at best).
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/bt03c013.zip
awesome trick!

xit-vono said:

Cameron mentioned that he wanted to get 13 in his build movie but he couldn't get the trick so it sounds like you have something similar.

Now let's see someone execute his plan to complete pa30 using revenant fireballs.

Vile said:

Now let's see someone execute his plan to complete pa30 using revenant fireballs.

I'd pay to see that.

Sensational jump! Executed perfectly. This is most likely the map 3 trick Cam was talking about (reference in this thread).

From that thread:

Fredrik said (about the map 3 trick):
Heh, jumping off the elevator to skip the blue key? That is indeed impossible.

Ooh! :-P

BTW, if I recall correctly, that pa30 idea Cam had was based on the Revenant rockets having splash damage (which they do not have).

Kristian Ronge said:
BTW, if I recall correctly, that pa30 idea Cam had was based on the Revenant rockets having splash damage (which they do not have).

Yeah, otherwise it would necessary for the missiles to be able to hound in on the Player corpse: if it were hit by a train of missiles and the ones in the rear went though all the way in, after the Player, hitting the Romero head. But, if I'm not mistaken, once the Player is dead the remaining missiles would stop following him, and would not follow the corpse down to the bottom of the "brain" area.

Another idea (totally impractical, but maybe theoretically possible) might be to have about four* archies blast you at a point when your corpse is in the air roughly above the boss brain (so you need at least five or six archies, all with excellent timing...). Archies can blast corpses that they have been targeting.

See my BuiNP104.lmp demo for an example where an archie blast occurs well after death, and also where a revenant missile stops tracking the player from the instant of death. However, that is a Boom demo, so the behaviour might be different. Should be easy enough to check if it works the same way in vanilla for someone with some time to kill.

* I say four, because splash damage from four archie blasts can kill a boss brain (example: r210p108.lmp), though maybe fewer can suffice.

A pacifist run of pl30 in pacifist might be possible... I remember messing around on the map and actually got the cyber to fire a rocket into the brain with an archvile boost leading his shot. Big pain in the ass, though.

forgot to mention that I think your choice for naming was the best.
makes me wonder what else might be possible on the real maps... barglide on 22? "strafe50" type thing glide on 8?

I found a class of trick which I've never seen done before so I thought I'd mention it here. It's a way of doing glides through plain 32 pixel gaps where there's no wall next to the gap to slide along. Normally "impossible", but you just need to get someone to stand next to the gap at the right position and then you can easily slide through :-) Like Syl's jump trick it's really for co-op only though single-player is possible with monster co-operation.

But off-hand I can't think of anywhere on the Iwads it would be useful, except possibly Map19 where you can exit with only the red key. These gaps are quite common in pwads though, such as TVR! 14 and 22 where you can glide straight to the exit - well worth a try for those (not me) who play co-op.

Here's a test wad with demos to show the idea: somebars.zip

cack_handed said:

But off-hand I can't think of anywhere on the Iwads it would be useful

Plutonia map19 springs immediately to mind.

Kristian Ronge said:

Ooh! :-P

Pfft. Jumping off a player isn't the same thing as just jumping off the elevator! This will remain impossible *in single player*... until someone does it.

Just yanking your chain (hope you didn't take it too seriously!).

Also, the Plutonia map 19 exit glide is indeed possible. It makes that map a walk in the park, actually.

Kristian Ronge said:

Just yanking your chain (hope you didn't take it too seriously!).

I'm hardly the first person to have called a possible trick impossible :-)

cack_handed said:

I found a class of trick which I've never seen done before so I thought I'd mention it here. It's a way of doing glides through plain 32 pixel gaps where there's no wall next to the gap to slide along. Normally "impossible", but you just need to get someone to stand next to the gap at the right position and then you can easily slide through :-) Like Syl's jump trick it's really for co-op only though single-player is possible with monster co-operation.

Another possible way to set it up in single-player would be when there is a barrel quite close to the gap you want to glide through. A pistol shot (or two, if you're lucky) could then be used to bring the barrel into the right position to be used in this way. I can't think of any examples offhand, but it's worth looking out for.

Kristian: Have you verified the pl19 glide for SP or coop?

Fredrik said:
I'm hardly the first person to have called a possible trick impossible :-)

Of course not, but it's always nice to rub it in! ;-D

Graham: it was quite some time ago, probably early 2005. Fooled around with it (in SP), only got it once after countless attempts, and deemed it useless. I was secretly hoping to include it in a pl19 run one day, and blow everyone away... ;-)

Another glide I've found that nobody's ever mentioned (that I know of) and that I've kept secret is in HR, map 2, right at the exit. You can glide in both directions (one of them, I forget which one, ridiculously easily). It's sadly useless, because you can't seem to reach the exit switch, otherwise you could do hr02 in less than 10 seconds...

Grazza said:
Another possible way to set it up in single-player would be when there is a barrel quite close to the gap you want to glide through. A pistol shot (or two, if you're lucky) could then be used to bring the barrel into the right position to be used in this way. I can't think of any examples offhand, but it's worth looking out for.

That sounds as if it's going to be a bit uncommon, but it would be a great trick to include in a map on purpose.

Anyway, inspired by Kristian's reports of success on pl19 I've also now managed that glide unassisted - nomonsters proof here: pl19m622.zip. The time says it all really, but I didn't find it that much harder than the D2 Map22 barglide which is included in built runs.

Kristian Ronge said:
Another glide I've found that nobody's ever mentioned (that I know of) and that I've kept secret is in HR, map 2, right at the exit. You can glide in both directions (one of them, I forget which one, ridiculously easily). It's sadly useless, because you can't seem to reach the exit switch, otherwise you could do hr02 in less than 10 seconds...

hr02p015.zip

Ooh! :-P

Still a lot of room for improvement - I don't want to spend too much time messing around with double-glide runs ;-)

Hahahah! :-)))
I forgot to say, I love it when people prove me wrong, too!

Very nice, cack_handed!

cack_handed said:

hr02p015.zip
Ooh! :-P

It seems to me that the player grow shorter during gliding. This strange engine... :)

hmm, what about jumping to the window near the blue door on the left on map03? there's a deaf soldier parked there and I managed to (probably) use him as a bit of a booster to get across after about 30 tries in chocolate doom. The window is 64 units wide and only 160 units away but you have to arrive at quite a sharp angle to fit your fat ass through. something that the layout of the map makes very difficult due to the central octagonal building. Could shave a second or three off yer normal speed run though

edit: after quick look at compet-n... bollocks, looks like a standard trick, heh

yes :) it's easy trick. could be done in 9 from 10 attempts

What about blue key grab through the wall in plutonia map13, is it possible?

It seems to be just out of reach (but I'd love to be proven wrong again! :-D), tried it with strafe50 and rocket jumping off the diagonal wall. When I modified the map -- by moving the key a couple of units closer to the wall -- I could grab it with strafe50.

cack_handed said:

D2 Map22 barglide which is included in built runs.

BTW, it is also used in TAS runs and in some compet-n demos. But as far as I can tell, no one seems to find it easy or at all predictable - just random and frustrating.

cack_handed said:

hr02p015.zip

Remember to claim your two compet-n points. As a Pacifist it is also an "undone done". Not that the HR Pacifist table can ever be filled, of course (even if you get the cyber to shoot the boss brain on map30, there's still map07, if nothing else).

Anyway, if people are in the mood for attempting awkward and spectacular tricks, then the death slide to the exit through the window in TVR! map06 is still there for the taking. And MM2 map09 Pacifist.

cack-handed: I tried the glide in HR map02 and found that you dont need to do the second glide to exit the map. The exit wall is wide enough that you can easily press the switch from the corner. So both pacifist and NM runs could be improved easily. But not for me - the first glide took me ages :)

Ooh! :-P

Yep, it's obvious once you see it, you have to aim for the end of the linedef with the tag rather than at the switch texture! So a smooth straferun across the hallway while flipping the hidden switch, followed by a lucky glide really will get the time under 10 seconds. But I'm a bit useless at that kind of "speed" stuff and I think I'll leave it to someone else.

Ok, so I did 0:12 run which took me maybe 10mins. My first glide was a little better than in your run but not perfect so I agree that 10 secs or less should be possible with some work.