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VinceDSS
Senior Member


Posts: 1170
Registered: 11-02


great demo man ... keep on the good work :) e4m6, e4m9 or some black plague maxes ? :)
or any other speedruns ... :)

you did great for playing under winxp + dos EXEs, rather uncommon...

I was thinking some of the guys hanging around here would try to make a couple demos, but they seem to be completely allergic to the original EXEs ... one thing would be that there is no prheretic-plus to help demo recording with some nifty undetectable TAS features... ?

Last edited by VinceDSS on 12-28-06 at 04:12

Old Post 12-28-06 02:01 #
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[WH]-Wilou84
Warming Up


Posts: 19
Registered: 12-06


Well, since there is nobody in e4m6 and e4m9's slots, why not :)
I'm still new to the last two episodes of Heretic, but let's see what I can do there...

Yeah, it's not that easy to play with the original EXEs, it requires some customization ( thanks again for your help, for instance I never thought that "joyb_speed 29" would give autorun :o ), and it doesn't play really smoothly, as regards to the other ports I use ( I usually play with jDoom / The Doomsday Engine ).
Moreover, the sound is terrible under XP, I'm forced to play without it, and it ruins the whole Heretic atmosphere.

Anyway, let's get back to work....

Old Post 12-28-06 12:01 #
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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


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VinceDSS said:
one thing would be that there is no prheretic-plus to help demo recording with some nifty undetectable TAS features... ?
Eh, you mean people submitting DOOM demos are cheating?

It could also be they don't have or don't like Heretic, you know, it's a separate game with different stuff in it, however similar in underlying functionality. Plus, like you say, not everyone might find it easy to record on XP (possibly without sound, or maybe with some lag).

Old Post 12-28-06 12:24 #
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[WH]-Wilou84
Warming Up


Posts: 19
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I just beat Arno Slagboom's e1m1 demo, I did it in 2:38 :
http://membres.lycos.fr/wilou84/Divers/h1m1-238.zip

e4m6's beginning is pretty hard, but I'll try my best.

Old Post 12-28-06 13:59 #
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VinceDSS
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great job man, very impressive :) this e1m1 demo will not be part of the demopack but it will be in the next heretic-n update :) I will do it as soon as the demopack is complete.

Good luck with e4m6 :) ... now only e4m9 and e6m3 left :)

if you do e4m9 I can do e6m3 ... and the demopack will be complete !!!

you mentionned you know linux very well. Maybe you could try DOSEmu as I heard several players said they have real good results with it, and it supports sound... :) As for the lag, XP always has a slight lag which I don't experience in 2K and 98. If anybody has an idea on how to eliminate it, we would be very grateful.


myk said:
Eh, you mean people submitting DOOM demos are cheating?



Don't get me mistaken, I don't think every doom demo recorders are cheaters. The fact that many players started to record great demos when prboom-plus appeared always tickled me. There was no lack of good windows ports before... still, few people recorded.

Last edited by VinceDSS on 12-28-06 at 19:36

Old Post 12-28-06 16:42 #
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[WH]-Wilou84
Warming Up


Posts: 19
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e4m6 is finally done !
http://www.geocities.com/peroxyd2s/...ng/h4m6-621.zip

Now it's time to do e4m9...

Old Post 12-29-06 18:18 #
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myk
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VinceDSS said:
There was no lack of good windows ports before... still, few people recorded.
True, but lots of the activity in the Forums here grew with PrBoom's improving v1.9 support and the Demos forum itself encouraged recording, while lots of people also stopped using Doom as they moved from Windows 98 to 2000 or XP, while others weren't even recording yet back in the "DOS friendly" era (2001 and before).

Old Post 12-29-06 18:35 #
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VinceDSS
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There was no TAS tools that allowed to make v1.9 demos at that time. Everything started blooming when prboom+ and the TAS got easily available. So commoners could make great demos ... it's partly why I stopped making compet-n demos, the impossibility to make a 100% legit demos because of the availibility of v1.9 TAS features.

Heretic is still a safe haven for uncheated demos because there are no v1.3 100% compatible ports.

Last edited by VinceDSS on 12-31-06 at 06:21

Old Post 12-31-06 06:16 #
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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member


Posts: 1820
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As for Heretic, I played it a bit after having seen it for the first time at a friend's house back in '97. I found the game to be completely unremarkable (I was obsessed with "Dark Forces" at that time), and, IIRC, I have neither played nor even seen it since. Tell me, has there *ever* been a large interest in Heretic speed running, even back in the mid-nineties (by "large" I mean remotely comparable to the attention given e.g. Doom or Quake)? Looking at Heretic-N, it seems to be mostly a one-man show, with guest appearances by QWERTY. I'm guessing you started Heretic-N because there had been little or no recording activity for the game during its (at that time) 5-year lifespan.

As for the PrBoom/TAS issue, you seem to have a knack for making vague accusations -- you've done so several times now throughout various threads over the last two years. In fact, due to the circumstances, you're (unintentionally?) pointing the finger at a *very* small group of players, namely those "regular" players who started submitting runs in the PrBoom-plus era. They are only 5: Anima, Belial, cack_handed, DomRem, and Phil1984. There are also a handful of players who have submitted very few demos (one or two), such as Zodiac, and Aqfaq.

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 12-31-06 at 12:09

Old Post 12-31-06 12:03 #
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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


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VinceDSS said:
So commoners could make great demos ...
Some of the guys that are recording also frequently play MultiPlayer online, so it should be easy to determine that they are sucktards that can't play without TAS. And they don't sound like assholes from their text files at all and aren't going to get paid to submit demos (most of which aren't even for COMPET-N).

Vince, I know you like Heretic and are eager to see more submissions, but getting impatient and starting to wildly accuse people without even having evidence is not going to help. On the contrary, it's just going to generate an ugly environment, like we're starting to see here. You know better, Vince; just let the thing grow at its own pace. DOOM doesn't have tons of demos today because someone decided to whip people into a recording frenzy one day. They've simply contributed at their natural rate of interest through the years.


Kristian Ronge:
Tell me, has there *ever* been a large interest in Heretic speed running, even back in the mid-nineties (by "large" I mean remotely comparable to the attention given e.g. Doom or Quake)? Looking at Heretic-N, it seems to be mostly a one-man show, with guest appearances by QWERTY.
It could not have had much till rather recently, without vv's hack, because it recorded like Doom v1.2, which made 1 level demos without intermissions. You've got every right to not like the idea of recording Heretic demos if it's not your preference, but saying something that in the end sounds like "look it's just a one man thing and nobody else cares" just adds to Vince's aggressions above (I can undertand your annoyance about the accusations, but you end up insulting people too); in any case, others have contributed their efforts as well, such as Radeg (though he isn't recording anything at all now), Bruno Vergílio, and now [WH]-Wilou84.

Old Post 12-31-06 15:03 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Oh, I apologize most sincerely and humbly if I gave that impression -- in no way am I saying anything to the effect that Heretic sucks and nobody cares about it (I did say that I didn't like it much, but that was just meant to explain my low interest in Heretic speedrunning. I haven't played the game at all for almost 10 years).

I was just reacting to Vince's conclusion that nobody recording anything for Heretic and everybody recording something for Doom is because PrBoom-plus makes it easy to cheat. My point was/is that very few people through the years have recorded antyhing for Heretic, regardless of activity in other games, recording activity in general, available engines, etc. Sorry if it came off as insulting, everyone (especially Vince), it wasn't my intention.

EDIT: BTW, I am well aware that e.g. Radek and Bruno have recorded some (likely very fine) runs, but let's face it -- Vince+QWERTY represent at least 80% of the demo activity. (160/203 Heretic-N points, adjustment for multiple-point categories is probably balanced out by beaten entries also recorded by them)

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 12-31-06 at 15:28

Old Post 12-31-06 15:10 #
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VinceDSS
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As myk mentionned, heretic suffered from serious demo recording issues and, much less known, a mouse turning issue while recording until vv's hack got released about 2 years ago. Of course the lack of a decent port didnt help either, even wHeretic is seriously flawed and very unstable on newer PCs.

During the Public Dang times, some players tried to make such demos, actually the table Arno set up is still there. They all gave up because of the demo recording issues, including me. The impossibility to see the stats screen made so that we only recorded speed demos. This probably led it to be forgotten by the demo community.

Last edited by VinceDSS on 12-31-06 at 15:43

Old Post 12-31-06 15:33 #
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VinceDSS
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Demopack complete !! Congrats dudes for all the good work.

http://www.geocities.com/peroxyd2s/...sc/HT-SMmax.zip

I kinda suck at making clear TXTs ...
If you have any suggestions I would be eternaly grateful.

Also since geocities has a 4 megs / hour limitation, do you know where this file could be hosted ? maybe among the other demopacks ?

btw, happy new year !!

Old Post 12-31-06 23:19 #
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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep


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VinceDSS said:
Also since geocities has a 4 megs / hour limitation, do you know where this file could be hosted ? maybe among the other demopacks ?
This sounds like a suitable place, if Doug agrees.

Old Post 12-31-06 23:27 #
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Schneelocke
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Posts: 744
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VinceDSS said:
Also since geocities has a 4 megs / hour limitation, do you know where this file could be hosted ? maybe among the other demopacks ?

btw, happy new year !!



I put up a copy here, just in case. :)

Old Post 01-01-07 13:57 #
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VinceDSS
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Thanks a lot man !

I did the TXT quite in a hurry (Bruno ;P) and forgot a few thigns ...
So I may redo it later... probably when I update heretic-n.

So if you got suggestions or thinks some parts should be rewritten I am open minded :)

Old Post 01-01-07 18:49 #
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Opulent
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myk said:
This sounds like a suitable place, if Doug agrees.


absolutely!
another mirror:
http://competn.doom2.net/pub/sda/misc/HT-SMmax.zip

Old Post 01-02-07 04:11 #
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VinceDSS
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Thanks a lot Doug! I will let you know when the final version is available.

Besides that, Heretic-N has been updated.

Old Post 01-02-07 16:40 #
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