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Eugene
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Et31 in 2:02? Sounds great!
Old Post 05-19-07 21:36 #
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Searcher
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emailking said:
I need to ask a dumb question. What exactly is the difference between eternal.wad and eternall.wad? They look the same to me.


eternall.wad is the orig. wad they released for eternal doom.

eternal.wad is the finished mapset they released for eternal doom 3. It has extra levels and such. It is based on the orig. mapset.

There may be a better description at teamtnt.com
http://www.teamtnt.com/ixet.htm

edit:typo

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Old Post 05-19-07 22:05 #
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Grazza
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When the third and final release of Eternal was made, it was available in two forms. One was an upgrade patch that one applied to the previous release. The other was a standalone version (which includes the aforementioned eternall.wad).

They were presumably intended to produce an identical wad, but there are some slight differences in some of the maps, enough to cause demos to desync. I'm not sure of the exact details, but it would be easy enough to investigate - just try playing back the demos in the original demopack with both versions of the wad. Though I can say that there are differences in maps 10, 18, 20, 21, 23, 24 and 25 (there are demos on these maps that don't play back with eternal.wad, but do play back with eternall.wad).

TimeOfDeath: Yes, it always confused me too. I decided today it was about time I understand this map. Funny that two of the keys are not needed at all, and that's without using any tricks. I don't know if you have noticed, but the TV screen near the first mancubus you see in my demo gives a visual clue as to where you need to go (once you have pressed on its control panel and found the remote control); the screen itself is also a teleporter. The demos in the original demopack show more of the ideas hidden within the map.

BTW, I press one switch quite unnecessarily - the light switch on the wall of the "The End" room.
Old Post 05-20-07 00:32 #
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Eugene
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If I remember correctly, standalone version of eternall.wad (~24.5 mb) available in 9 mb zip archive requires an installation via adding sprites form iwad. It's impossible to play distibuted eternall.wad with doom2.exe. You get eternal.wad (>28 mb) after installation over any of doom2 iwads (namely Doom2, TNT and Plutonia).

I never see Eternal episode 2 release. If the second release is legal stuff since 3rd episode was uploaded, please, Grassa, provide a link.
Old Post 05-20-07 17:56 #
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Grazza
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Yes, eternall.wad can only be used directly with ports. To play it with Doom2.exe you need to use the installation method provided ("deusf -app eternall.wad" isn't sufficient on its own).

The original Eternal releases were made publically available - the only reason they aren't still in the archive is that they were superseded by later ones.

The initial 12-level release can still be found at an old cdrom.com mirror:
ftp://ftp.sogang.ac.kr/.3/msdos_gam...d-f/eternal.zip

I can't find Eternal2 online anywhere though. One wonders why the Eternal3 upgrade patch is in the archive if there is no way to get Eternal2, which is needed for it to be any use... The Eternal 1->2 upgrade patch was called eternupg.exe (date-stamp 21-Jan-1997; I imagine I downloaded it from the CompuServe Action Games Forum) - I could send you that.
Old Post 05-20-07 18:47 #
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Searcher
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I have eternal 2, I believe, on my system if anyone needs it or if it needs to be put in the archives. 7.8 meg for the zip file. The wad is dated 2-2-97. If I am correct. It may just pay off one of these days to be a packrat.

Edit:typo

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Old Post 05-21-07 01:37 #
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Eugene
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I downloaded Eternal 1 several years ago (2002 ?) from filelibrary.com. Thanks for the old cdrom.com mirror link though.

I'd like to see both the patch and Eternal 2.

Please send the archives to my e-mail address or upload them to fileshare site if both files have any public interests.
Old Post 05-21-07 09:54 #
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Eugene I tried to email the eternal 2 zip to you and your mail bounced. Has it changed from the one in your profile?

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Old Post 05-22-07 19:53 #
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Eugene
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Searcher, please resend.

Should be no problems at all. May be ukr.net server fails though. Sometimes such one happens. Btw you can send the file to
ekapustin at inbox.ru

However I leave the town next morning and I'll not be back until Saturday. I'm not sure if I'll check out my e-mail before departure.



Heh, I've upgraded eternal 1 to eternal 2 and after to eternal 3. The resultant eternal.wad has different size to eternal.wad obtained from eternall.wad. So it's interesting to build eternal.wad via updating distributed eternal2.
Old Post 05-23-07 18:49 #
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Eugene I will send it to both emails incase of one failure.

edit:
OK, just sent it. the inbox account bounced this time. Hopefully the other one made it through.

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Last edited by Searcher on 05-23-07 at 21:58
Old Post 05-23-07 21:45 #
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Grazza
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The problem might be that the zip contains a .bat file. I know gmail refuses to accept zip attachments in that case. You can "fool" it by renaming it with some meaningless dummy extension such as ".zit".
Old Post 05-24-07 07:19 #
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TimeOfDeath
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eternall map09 UV-Speed in 2:47

I'm trying to get rid of the demos that use "best weapon". This is a 33 second improvement from last time. Pretty much the same route as before, except no plasma gun this time around and a couple different attack strategies against certain enemies. A few slow-downs here and there, but I haven't been able to improve on it since.

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:28
Old Post 05-25-07 04:45 #
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Eugene
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Thanks Searcher.
I've downloaded eternal2.zip from my ukr.net account.

Grassa is right. Zips with the bat file inside are better send with a dummy extension.
Old Post 05-26-07 13:52 #
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TimeOfDeath
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I'm trying to record on eternall map23 (with PrBoom 2.4.7, -complevel 2) but I'm running into a problem. After walking over Linedef 784, the ceiling of Sector 169 lowers to 8 units above the floor, but the ceiling lowers very very slowly. By the time you walk over Linedef 804, which activates the same sector, the ceiling hasn't even finished lowering and the map gets stuck since Linedef 804 is walk over once. I watched the nomo demo in the official Eternal demos pack and this problem doesn't happen. So I tried changing the compatibility level and it seems like 7-10, 12-15, and 17 lower the ceiling at the "proper" speed, while the other levels lower the ceiling at a much slower speed. I haven't gone through all of the comp levels in PrBoom-Plus, but complevel 1-4 give me the same problem so far. What should I do?
Old Post 05-28-07 07:31 #
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Grazza
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Can't easily test right now (in New Zealand, with limited computer access), but if it is behaving like this in Prboom-plus's vanilla complevels, I'd imagine that is the way it behaves in vanilla, and that it is a genuine map issue.

I would suggest testing to see if the same thing happens in Chocolate-Doom and Doom2.exe (run under Dosbox if necessary). e.g. record a demo in prboom-plus 2.4.8.2test with -complevel 2 that features the problem, and play it back with Chocolate and vanilla.

Does the demo in the demopack play back OK with Prboom-plus? (Probably it does, as I have in the past tested the entire demopack, and the only two I can't get to play back, also fail with vanilla.) If so, then presumably something that is done in that demo causes the problem you describe not to be triggered.
Old Post 05-28-07 12:03 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Thanks for the reply, Grazza. The nomo demo from the official pack does playback fine in PrBoom-Plus. I've tried mimmicking the demo as best as I could but I'm still stumped as to how to progress. Playing a problem demo in Chocolate-Doom resulted in a problem playback as well. I tried doing some nomo with Chocolate-Doom and a couple times the map didn't get stuck, so I then tried in PrBoom-Plus and was able to not get stuck a couple times as well, however I have no idea how not to get stuck. :)

So I guess I just don't understand the puzzle? For the times I didn't get stuck, I didn't idclip into Sector 169 to see what was going on. Sorry, I shouldn't have implied that the complevels may be messed up.

Here are two demos: et23what

Both recorded with PrBoom 2.4.7 -complevel 2. One demo doesn't get stuck, the other does.

Edit: Ok, maybe I wasn't walking over enough linedefs with sector tag 4 (linedef 978, 979, 980, 981) before walking over linedef 804. Sorry about that, guys.

Seems a bit silly, though, that linedef 804 isn't repeatable. I have to go out of my way just to make sure the map doesn't get stuck. Surely this problem existed when the wad was being made and tested? I wonder if this was intended to be some sort of twisted trap...

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:28
Old Post 05-28-07 15:03 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Sorry for the double-post. Eternall MAP23 UV-Speed in 2:45.
There are a couple of shortcuts in the demo and I tried to get out of the problem building as quick as I could without the map getting stuck. :)

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:27
Old Post 05-29-07 14:03 #
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Gusta
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TimeOfDeath, all your eternal runs are great. Really fast and crazy speeds through. I am looking forward to your next runs even on the longest maps :-) And eternal demos deserves to be in its own separated thread, I think.
Old Post 05-30-07 09:14 #
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Grazza
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Gusta said:
And eternal demos deserves to be in its own separated thread, I think.
Yes, will do so once I have a bit more online time.
Old Post 06-01-07 04:26 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Thanks Gusta, glad you like them. :)
I'd like to try map25 eventually, though I haven't yet played it in PrBoom without infinite ammo.

I recorded a new demo, but on a shorter map: eternall MAP31 UV-Speed in 1:25 using Grazza's nice route.

Edit: by the way, the archvile jump in my map22 demo was from Eugene's demo.

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:26
Old Post 06-02-07 04:40 #
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TimeOfDeath
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I hope it's ok to keep posting eternall demos here before the thread gets split (meaning, I hope it's not more work for Grazza compared to if I made a new thread)?

Yesterday I was trying to hunt down any sort of shortcut on eternall map24 in an editor and came across a pretty big one. Here's a -nomonsters demo: et24nomo

Instead of going through the teleporter that takes you to the blue key, you can do a soft sr50 jump off the lift and onto the 8 unit wide railing below (thankfully, the map author didn't make this rail impassible, like the ones next to both lifts in that room). Then go along the railing until you go through the teleporter to the right of the dark hall where all the spectres came from at the start of the map.

I haven't been able to get an exit yet for UV-Speed, as my success rate with the shortcut isn't very good (the furthest I've got was to the yellow key, where I died). I forgot that PrBoom 2.4.7 produces desynched demos on this map due to the stairs, so I'd like to use a different port. I still can't seem to get used to the mouse in PrBoom-Plus (which is why I'm still using PrBoom). It feels like the faster I move my mouse, the more my view turns (hard to explain). I tried some 360 degree turning tests with a ruler and my mouse moves a shorter distance for a full 360 when I move it faster. Is there a way I can change this to make it feel the same as PrBoom?

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:26
Old Post 06-04-07 15:05 #
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I noticed the mouse difference as well. On my system I had to adjust up or down one or two ticks on the H. sensitivity to get roughly the same control. I am not at home now so can't check the config. Before figuring that out I would rarely even touch PRBoom plus, because I really didn't care for the "perceived" difference in the mouse control. I had assumed they were, or should be, the same. Now I like both equally as well again. I think I run my sensitivity around 31 in the config. If my memory serves. But I would have to check to be sure. I also adjusted the vert. down to next to nothing.

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Old Post 06-04-07 19:23 #
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entryway
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TimeOfDeath said:
I still can't seem to get used to the mouse in PrBoom-Plus (which is why I'm still using PrBoom). It feels like the faster I move my mouse, the more my view turns (hard to explain). I tried some 360 degree turning tests with a ruler and my mouse moves a shorter distance for a full 360 when I move it faster. Is there a way I can change this to make it feel the same as PrBoom?
Try to disable mouse acceleration in Windows (Control Panel\Mouse\Pointer Options\[ ]Enhance pointer precission) or try this registry file:
http://prboom-plus.sourceforge.net/mouse_accel_fix.zip

Last edited by entryway on 06-04-07 at 20:51
Old Post 06-04-07 20:27 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Excellent, thanks a lot! :)
Unchecking "Enhance pointer precision" did the trick.
Old Post 06-04-07 22:09 #
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Grazza
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There is also the acceleration setting within prboom-plus, something that isn't available in regular prboom. If you don't want that to come into play, then set it to zero. In general, prboom-plus has a lot of optional features - if you don't like them, you've no need to abandon the port - just go through the menus and nuke the things you don't want (or start off with a blank cfg and only enable the things you want, etc.).

Personally, I have recently started using a degree of mouse acceleration, and this seems to help quite a lot with the "new-style" glides. I feel they are too important a feature of current speedrunning to have a set-up that makes them harder than they need to be.

And feel very free to keep making "Eternal" posts in this thread. Just make sure "Eternal" and "non-Eternal" comments are in separate posts. I'll do the split once I am at home (right now I am using a free Internet access terminal in Singapore).
Old Post 06-05-07 15:26 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Eternall MAP24 UV-Speed in 4:36
First and only exit. I don't want to try anymore. :)

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:25
Old Post 06-06-07 15:02 #
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TimeOfDeath
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MAP27 UV-Speed in 0:53

Thanks for the split, Grazza. :)

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:24
Old Post 06-09-07 14:49 #
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TimeOfDeath
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MAP08 UV-Speed in 2:00
Using the route in Eugene and Anima Zero's demos.

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:24
Old Post 06-11-07 11:43 #
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TimeOfDeath
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MAP30 UV-Speed in 6:14

Using Eugene's route. This demo ends a few seconds prematurely in Chocolate Doom, when the door in front of the icon of sin raises after the keens die. The program just exits. Any idea why? It plays back fine in PrBoom-Plus and PrBoom.

I also got a first exit on MAP26 in 7:48, but I want to try improving on that.

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 11-12-07 at 08:23
Old Post 06-17-07 00:01 #
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myk
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TimeOfDeath said:
This demo ends a few seconds prematurely in Chocolate Doom, when the door in front of the icon of sin raises after the keens die. The program just exits. Any idea why? It plays back fine in PrBoom-Plus and PrBoom.
Beats me, as it runs fine all the way to the tally screen under both Doom2 and Chocolate Doom, on my system. Great running, by the way.

The Chocolate Doom I'm using is dated January 14th, 2007.
Old Post 06-17-07 01:57 #
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