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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

While map 20 was fresh in my head I did a max too, only I missed 6 enemies I think. (98% or so, 25:00 ish). After watching it again and paying attention to the automap with iddt I know which ones I missed: when you hit the switch that raises the bridge to the cybers, don't go down in the lava to that warp. Instead backtrack the way you came to make sure you get a couple in that area. The other 4 were really obvious imps up on the wall (at the end cliff path area) but I just didn't think of them some reason.

Attachment: cchest320maxggg1.zip
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08-01-08 05:29 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
Registered: 12-07

Nice demos, gggmork (Well, actually, I've only watched the UVSpeed so far, but it was awesome).

I love CC3 map 20, but it's too long to get much attention from demoers, so I applaud your choice of map. Maybe I'll attempt to speedrun that one myself at some stage... Looks like it could be improved by a small margin with a little less running into walls (hard to accomplish given the twisting nature of the tunnels) and the improvements you yourself suggested.

08-01-08 14:56 #

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jongo
Green Marine

Posts: 46
Registered: 07-07

Yep, i've just checked UV speed and it's nice one, though definitely doable under 5 minutes with some effort. Will certainly watch maxdemo tomorrow. But please include some textfiles in the archives next time :)
And btw finally found time to check out Rottking's megarun on my (one of) favourite cchest3 map, and it wasn't that cautious as i expected it to be. Actually, when i was playing the map with savegames, my time was longer and i even had to write iddqd twice, because i had no health. Rocks!

08-01-08 17:05 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

Wanted to see if I could beat anima zero's time and got 10:54 max cc327. Mostly due to a different cyberdemon strategy (circle strafe one while going up/down steps alot. This makes the opposing cyber's rockets be in the same plane less thus being less threatening, plus the steps seem to block splash damage pretty well.)

I'm starting to quite like prboom's 180 degree turn key; makes up for not using a mouse kinda. Didn't include a text file again.

I would really prefer if the largest size screen (taller so you can see more but not see doomman's mugshot) had the exact same information in the exact same visual way. Right now I never use that biggest size because you can't see how much ammo you have for EACH gun without switching to the individual gun (you lose that information so its a disadvantage). Plus the way the numbers are shown (using F5 or whatever to show the time/health/armor/etc) makes it hard to quickly look at in your peripheral vision. The numbers should be larger and color coded per type (like health always = blue, ammo always = red, etc) instead of changing to red when low. You can only see the time and number of currently killed monsters in that larger size though it seems.

Attachment: cchest327maxggg1054.zip
This has been downloaded 21 time(s).

Last edited by gggmork on 08-06-08 at 19:48

08-02-08 23:06 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

6:27 uv max kills/secrets in map 32 (attached)

Attachment: cchest332maxggg627.zip
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08-06-08 19:46 #

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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep

Posts: 10441
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gggmork said:
6:27 uv max kills/secrets in map 32 (attached)

Needs more text file (otherwise we end up with HDD's full of hard-to-identify demos).

08-06-08 20:08 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

myk said:
Needs more text file.

My current method of playing demos is to put the lmps in the folder of their respective wad then drag/drop both the wad and lmp (click on one then ctrl-click on the other) simultaneously into prboom-plus.exe (kept in a separate folder of its own). Lmp subfolders seem to just get in the way for me, as far as dragging/dropping goes (and using the command line seems much more cumbersome than dragging), so I tend to delete everything but the lmp when I watch other people's demos so I can easily drag/drop both simultaneously.

The name of the lmp typically contains all the information I need anyway with no need to view the text file. 'cchest332MAXggg627' already contains the information of which wad, which map, the fact that its max and the time (if long titles don't matter it could be called 'cchest3map32uvmax627gggmorkprboomplus.lmp'). The only information besides that I can think of including is a general comment about it but I can write that comment in this forum instead of a text file it seems. I guess if someone puts all their lmps for all wads in a single folder by themselves, or maybe if a single wad has tons of demos it could get confusing.

08-06-08 21:54 #

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myk
patron mod of ugly ducklings and black sheep

Posts: 10441
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If you want, use a long file name with all the info, best separated by underscores, though the idea is that if the demo is for an engine that can run on DOS (the case with Boom) 8 characters is ideal. TimeOfDeath does this pretty well with his ZDoom demos, but then the current ZDoom builds don't run on DOS. The essential info is engine version (not the executable you used, but the specific demo version; Boom in the demos above, not PrBoom), player name, WAD, level or episode, category, and time. A text file is optimal because it allows you to include comments and even contact info (this also reinforces the player's identity in the long run, as nicks can become meaningless or be repeated). Don't think just in "what I need" because the idea is that the demos are shared so all speedrunning participants and fans can see them.

08-06-08 22:22 #

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Donce
Member

Posts: 479
Registered: 10-03

I still vote for tagging the demo file itself, though it seems I'm probably the only one to use it. Most of my demos are tagged with lmpmast.exe, which writes the comments after the quit demo byte, in the end of file. I'm still doing that for my own convenience, because I don't organise my demos and after a few years I wouldn't remember which wad they were recorded on.

Lmpmast.exe does have a drawback - it seems only doom2.exe and Boom demos can be tagged, Zdoom demos' header is unrecognizable by it.

08-07-08 01:57 #

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Cameron Law
Newbie

Posts: 9
Registered: 09-08

Hi.

Currently working on a speed run of Map03 UV, best completed recorded time is 6:18, but I can do a lot better apart from one thing.

I can't find a way to consistently complete the area with the two reverent and a archivile. I'm generally at 100% hp, more then enough ammo but this area seems to defy every type. The only way I've found is too hope I can separate the archivile from the reverent in an area where I can use the combat shotgun to interrupt most of his attacks. This happens once in a blue moon.

I've tried running but generally I can't make it fast enough to escape and get out of Line of Sight.

Any help here?

09-24-08 18:39 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

you mean with max kills or just speed? I tried speed but a lot of parts can be done faster and I didn't have it 100% memorized.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hwk9x3
Maybe a more consistent way is to open the arch door and immediately move to the right before going in the door (makes the enemies tend to move right thus giving you a path to run down the left), and just time when to turn left after that, because you probably can't see well if the arch is blasting you.

09-26-08 04:44 #

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Bruno Verg�lio
Junior Member

Posts: 108
Registered: 11-03

Hi guys, I'm ressurrecting this old topic... I recorded map 23 uv max, ugly demo but I'm posting it anyway, but comments would be nice... I'd like to record more and record better, but just didn't got much time... maybe on december after I end my third year at the university... see ya...

[Boom compat demo]

Attachment: c3231443.zip
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11-05-08 01:01 #

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Bruno Verg�lio
Junior Member

Posts: 108
Registered: 11-03

Improved my demo... got 12:39 now :D

Attachment: c3231239.zip
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11-05-08 01:31 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
Registered: 12-07

I attempted to improve upon gggmork's UV-Speed of CC3 20 since I don't feel like going to bed just yet. Attempted it for about an hour, and got one demo in which I came extremely near to the exit. Was killed by arachnotrons just as I was about to reach the top of the enormous chasm. I neglect to pick up the RL earlier on and generally play quite dangerously, so I should get a much improved time if I can only get out alive.

The failure is attached since I think it's quite exciting.

Attachment: c320sfailure.zip
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11-18-08 01:29 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
Registered: 12-07

Well, I finally succeeded, with a little help from the plasma gun I had forgotten all about. It requires only a minor detour and is ideal for storming your way up the chasm with. The arachnotrons didn't have a chance this time round.

The time is a respectable 4:28. I fell off the side of the chasm at one point, so there's quite a lot of scope for improvement here. 4:15 should be fairly straightforward.

Attachment: c320s-428.zip
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11-18-08 03:49 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

Nice, you made the blue key part look easy in the 2nd. I tried again (double-barrel-only and fast-blue-key route) and the arachnotrons killed me (when I got that far after a lot of attempts). The whole sequence is quite linear so not sure if I'd try more.

11-18-08 06:31 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
Registered: 12-07

Improved the cc3 map 20 UV-Speed time to 4:12.

I was having a lot of trouble with the blue key room tonight, thanks mostly to some recalcitrant hellknights, but I finally persevered to get the sub 4:15 demo I wanted.

A few shoddy moments, unfortunately, but pretty good on the whole. It's hard to keep moving well throughout the entire level, especially when there are so many tunnels and corridors.

Attachment: c320s-412.zip
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11-19-08 03:24 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
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The failed super-shotgun-only run was my favorite/most risky, especially the arachnotron/cyber part. That run hit the lava switch that accesses the arachnotrons at 2:39, while your plasma run hit it at 2:55. So 16 seconds faster on the super-shotgun-only route at that point, but perhaps the plasma would make up for it mowing through the enemies faster on the end cliffs. This was my best failed super-shotgun-only run (hit lava switch at 2:32 only because I skipped the berzerk and radiation suit, but died on arachnotrons w/o even opening the cyber door). I guess I'm done, mostly since infinitely tall enemies make the blue key (fast route) too annoying (when you're above, unreachable ground enemies block you; when you're below, unreachable cacos block you, not to mention those hell knights often blocking you):
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ct924f

11-19-08 10:38 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
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Yeah, the arach/cyber bit was pretty good if I do say so myself, but it was more down to luck than anything I did. It isn't often that they move aside and let you get to the switch straight away. I was also lucky that only one arachnotron went on to fire at me as I hit the switch. Unfortunately, that area has an absurdly high chance of failure if you're using the chaingun or SSG.

I'd say that having only the SSG shouldn't really slow you down as you progress up the cliff at the end. Most of the enemies are easy enough to run around. The PG just allows you to cut your way through if you get a bit unlucky at any given stage of the ascent, and is of course invaluable for dealing with the arachnotrons earlier.

I looked back at my failed SSG run, and the timer read about 3:40 when I was killed by the arachnotrons. In the 4:12 demo, the time at the same point was about 4:52, so it seems that had I passed the arachnotrons I might actually have gotten a time between 4:00 and 4:05. Sub 4:00 might be possible if everything went almost perfectly.

If I wanted to optimise the demo more I'd probably omit the PG, but I'm pretty satisfied with my current time and see no need to subject myself to such torture... :)

Your demo was good, by the way. You seem to move a bit slower than I do (straferunning angle?) but it allows you to bump into things a lot less, as was evident in the corridor leading up to the SSG cavern.

I like this level quite a bit, so I'll probably attempt a maxdemo in the next couple of days.

Last edited by justanotherfool on 11-19-08 at 17:42

11-19-08 17:10 #

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RjY
anARCHy

Posts: 355
Registered: 05-02

Lost Heretic said:
CC3
map28 - Token Arch-vile
UV-Max in 7:57

This is cool, I forgot to say, thanks for making it.

justanotherfool said:
Improved the cc3 map 20 UV-Speed time to 4:12.

I was having a lot of trouble with the blue key room tonight

On a speedrun? Why are you going in there at all?

11-21-08 01:01 #

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Joshy
Mini-Member

Posts: 52
Registered: 07-08

Has anyone done a demo on Map 30 of CC3, I'd like to see that. :)

11-21-08 01:30 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

Yeah, I noticed you don't need the blue key too, heh heh. I cut 2 measily minutes off my c3-20 uvmax run (attached, 100% kills/secrets, 23:47) and didn't get the blue key just to show you don't need it.

I meant to have more rockets at the part when I take down the caco hord (I planned to bunch them together like that and do it quick with splash damage) and should have had more rockets at the 'tedious field with lots of enemies on ledges' too (all well, a mancubus and reverent infought). I almost forgot the last secret.

Things to remember:
*when you hit the lava switch, 2 spectres warp right by that switch.
*after you warp in the lava move backwards (cell pack)
*how to tackle a max can be confusing, but remember max needs all secrets; therefore the route is at least somewhat chiseled out (have to take both warp detours)

Attachment: c320maxggg2347.zip
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11-21-08 05:32 #

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gggmork
Member

Posts: 415
Registered: 06-07

Here's the 2:46 cc3-30 demo, joshy (since there's spawners I guess max kills is impossible, so just did speed w/ 100% secrets).

Attachment: c330ggg246.zip
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11-21-08 06:47 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1379
Registered: 10-05

RjY said:
On a speedrun? Why are you going in there at all?

Ha, that's funny. Though to be honest, I hate finding doors that should require a key but don't due to mapper error. This makes part of the level unnecessary, removing my ostensible motivation to visit it. What, you expect me to kill the monsters in that part of the level for FUN?

11-21-08 07:03 #

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Joshy
Mini-Member

Posts: 52
Registered: 07-08

Thanks for the demo gggmork. Levithan's got a serious problem, you snuck all the way without disturbing the monsters at the start, eep. I'll make sure you won't do that in my CC4 map! :p

11-21-08 12:53 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
Registered: 12-07

Thanks for pointing that out, RjY. I feel quite stupid now... :)

Anyway, if you can bypass the blue key then a run without rockets and plasma suddenly starts to look a lot easier.

gggmork: Like I said, I'm also working on a maxdemo, so it'll be interesting to see how the route in your latest demo compares to my own. I'd better go and watch it.

11-21-08 15:31 #

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Gusta
Member

Posts: 472
Registered: 02-04

Nice demos gggmork! It looks that you use that 180-degree-turn key quite reliably. Anyway if you are playing with -complevel 2 (doom2.exe compatibility) you couldn't use this key, could you?
I am just intersting because I hope that once plutonia 2 will be done then the demos will be vanilla compatible.

11-21-08 18:31 #

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RjY
anARCHy

Posts: 355
Registered: 05-02

justanotherfool said:
Thanks for pointing that out, RjY. I feel quite stupid now... :)

Don't feel stupid, the only reasonable way you're going to notice these things is if you have the automap set to display locked doors in a different colour. I'm guessing you're still pretty much using the config that comes with plus which is "more Doom-like", i.e. it turns most of the good stuff off :)

Gusta said:
Anyway if you are playing with -complevel 2 (doom2.exe compatibility) you couldn't use this key, could you? I am just intersting because I hope that once plutonia 2 will be done then the demos will be vanilla compatible.

There's no technical[1] reason why they shouldn't be vanilla-compatible.

All the reverse key does is insert a tic with an unusually large turn value into the demo. There's no reason this should break in doom2.exe, you can obviously record such a tic yourself by moving the mouse fast enough. It just doesn't have a specific key to do it for you.

[1] Whether or not you think there are moral reasons against using reverses in doom2.exe is a different matter entirely and I refuse to be baited into that argument ;)

11-21-08 19:53 #

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justanotherfool
Junior Member

Posts: 103
Registered: 12-07

Okay, I finally managed to get a successful maxdemo on c320.

Who'd have thought that the blue key room would be the main source of my difficulties? :)
The room leading into that one is also incredibly annoying. I even had quite a few deaths at the hands of those 3 revenants guarding the RL. The yellow key cavern can be quite dangerous as well, since there are a lot of projectiles flying around from all directions.

The route is superficially a lot like gggmork's but there are a few fairly significant tweaks.

The time taken was approximately 21:53.

Attachment: c320-2153.zip
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

Last edited by justanotherfool on 11-22-08 at 18:20

11-21-08 21:58 #

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