TAS (tools-assisted) demos

If this interesting:
4 whole days i spent on this TAS (nightmare).
On Newgothic Movement 1 i spent two weeks.
On Sunder whole damn week. // hardest run in my life
On these UV-MAX for Doom2 i spent from 3 hours to one day.
Than faster I'll do these TAS than more probability in release full version.
I'm lazy ass. Two months are gone and i still haven't did D2ALL TNT Evilution yet.
Probably it's even better. Much more mistakes than in Newgothic Movement 1 i did there.
Will reRun after UV-Max on Doom2.
Also have idea to make D2All on Hellbound, Valiant, Slaughterfest...
Future, future, future... XD
Amm... Fredrik - it's hobby for me, nothing more. It was really hard but i like what i do. Like a Achievement.

Fredrik said:

The Compet-N record in this category is over an hour long

Record is 56 minutes by vile, I don't get why that demo isn't in dsda

Just wondering, how could you even make TASing a job?
Also, I want to do more Max TASes, so I'm maybe going to do Ultimate Doom E1. The fastest UV-Fast TAS for E1 is about 13 minutes by Light_Speed. I want to see how much I could lower it in UV-Max. I'll that today, and see what I can achieve on E1M1. UV-Max TAS record for E1M1 is 23 seconds, so I'll aim for that.

MD922 said:

Just wondering, how could you even make TASing a job?

There will always be people who enjoy TASing and make it for free. So, I can't see any way to make it a job at this moment. Well, maybe if you have a hugely successful YouTube channel presenting TASes. I still can't imagine one person succeeding in it alone, though. There will always be a whole community against your runs, so your content will probably never keep up with the most recent developments in TASing.

Dang. I was aiming for 22 on E1M1, but I got 23. It is the same time as the DSDA TAS record, so I'll continue with this. I feel kind of done trying to manipulate E1M1 RNG :p
Don't upload to DSDA.

e1m1x023.zip

EDIT: I didn't get one of the secrets. I'll fix it up D:

Okay, updated with the secret :)

e1m1x023.zip

DOOM UV-MAX D1EP2 in 20:09
Certainly it's not my category.
With XDRE it's could be a lot faster.

doom_ep2max.zip

Aqfaq said:

Akse seems to have no max runs available

Well, i did Tyson/Reality of Scythe e1 and Speedfighter/Reality of UT e1m1.

Final Doom: TNT Evilution D2ALL in 32:31
HUh... Finally within one day I did that run.

tnt_ev.zip

Cool to see a new TNT TAS, but you're missing some things. Here's some major tricks you left out (that I know of)
MAP18 Rocket Jump
MAP20 Archvile Jump
MAP25 Linedef Skip

Wait... a TNT TAS in 1 day? I really would pay Alse to finish his older TAS; it would come out amazing.

And yes, all the tricks Cyber listed should be added as they look cool and speeds up the run.

One irrevelent topic, but is Green Marine title a custom title?

MAP 18 Rocket jump... hmm. WHere? Where is blue key? nope. Tried. Too high.
MAP 20 Archvile jump. Huh.. Indeed it could save 1 minute or more.
MAP 25 Linedef skip. Oh these skips always work against me.
So many fail attempts were because i ran through teleport - not in. (it's not funny,) but avoid these linedefs it's such randomness as these glides or berserk hits.

MD922 said:

a TNT TAS in 1 day?

In 1 day.. Yes. But I already knew the way. So i just repeated my old TAS work two months ago. With improved tactic of course.

MD922 said:

One irrevelent topic, but is Green Marine title a custom title?

Not my work. Not my initiative. It's better than "Warming up" i guess. I like it.

Hmm, there are quite many tricks missing, and couple levels are much slower than the current non-tas record. The demo feels like it was done in the 90s with the modern tools :P

MD922 said:

One irrevelent topic, but is Green Marine title a custom title?

Nope.

Go watch Map 18 TNT UV-Speed record. Contains notably the hardest rocket rocket jump of all the original IWADs.

Hmmm... Possible finish TNT within 30 mins.
I don't know will i rerun again or not but now i know about tricks...
Huh. Feels like whole day was waste of time.
Anyway it's faster than others D2ALL.

Think about all the effort I did for 2002ado. Spent 3-4 weeks getting to E1M5, then being told I missed a big E1M2 trick. I had other TASes I wanted to do, so I passed it on. The point is, don't fell like you've wasted time. Get back up, and redo what needs to be done.

Azuruish said:

Feels like whole day was waste of time.

It wasn't a waste of time, but you can't make a quality TAS anywhere near as quickly as you're making them. It's awesome to see the enthusiasm, but many of my previous comments still apply. In your Doom 2 NM 100, your BFG usage is still really poor. In so many cases you should have fired a good quarter of a second earlier to get the damage you need out instantly so you don't run into any enemies before they die. (There are so many places that can be improved in that run)

It would be worth your while slowing down a bit and making sure each part of your TAS is as good as it can be. Watch runs from people like ClumsyDoomer, Aske and MD922 (or even Alexander Nikulin's Hell Revealed TAS) and look at the level of optimisation present.

Also, you should really look around at current runs (both D2ALL and individual UV Speed level runs) to see what the current best times are for real runs. Planning out your route and ammo usage is vital to making a good run.

You have the potential to make really good runs, but you really need to slow down a bit.

You would make me crap if I uploaded here my old demo on TNT in 37:45. XD
Demo D2ALL by Istvan Pataki in 41:14 is so slow, so i got idea to make my own.
Here it is. 32:31...
Now i know it possible make within 30 minutes. //i could remake run from 18 MAP and improve (there i have enough health for rocketjump) - to save 2 minutes or more and finally upload on youtube.
These TAS demos are like a art for me.
AND I STILL DON"T KNOW HOW THAT BFG9000 WORKS!!! Random... what can i say.

Rewatched your demo, you missed the map 05 wobble key grab. Saves like 30 seconds.

Nope. 1-17 MAP which are perfect for me as in time as in style. Do your own demo and will compare after.
Some trick unrepeatable - for example pull lever in MAP09 (where are crates located).
Seems simple but god dammit i spent 1 hours on this. That shit works as it wants and i don't know his rules.
So i'll leave these 17 maps and rerun others. //later, so tired...

Azuruish said:

AND I STILL DON"T KNOW HOW THAT BFG9000 WORKS!!! Random... what can i say.

Give this a read. More often than not, it's a good idea to fire the BFG at a wall just before you want to hit a bunch of enemies because it's actually the tracers that you usually want to hit the enemies, not the actual ball. If there's no wall, then you want your shot to hit the enemies slightly before you would run into them.

Indeed the existing TAS of TNT is not great by today's standards, but in a TAS everything should really look as polished as possible. No shots should miss, if enemies must be killed they should be killed in the most efficient way possible (Arachnatrons 2 rockets, Barons 4 rockets, Spider Masterminds 1 BFG, etc...) and the distance you travel should be minimised at all times. For example, in the very first map of your Doom 2 NM100, you hit a switch to lower a wall, then run to the other side of the room and then have to run back and hit the switch a second time. That doesn't accomplish anything, and so shouldn't have happened.

Azuruish said:

Nope. 1-17 MAP which are perfect for me as in time as in style. Do your own demo and will compare after.

If you're being told that your run can be improved, turning around and saying it can't (or "do it yourself") just looks a little childish. I can't find it at the moment, but your run has a lot of room for improvement as Aske's unfinished TNT run is much faster than yours.

This is why you should slow down a bit and work more carefully on each TAS you're doing. These things can't be made overnight.

Azuruish said:

Seems simple but god dammit i spent 1 hours on this.

Look here, people (generally) don't care how long (or short, seeing the frequency at which you release things) of a time you spend on something, they just care if it's good quality. Ask yourself: "Are the things I'm releasing good quality?"

Azuruish said:

Some trick unrepeatable - for example pull lever in MAP09 (where are crates located).

There's a W1 walkover trigger in front of it that needs to be deactivated (i.e. crossed) before you can operate that switch up there. That walkover line is what starts the teleporting monster ambush and is easy to see (IIRC it's a bar of light running along the crates).

Azuruish said:

Seems simple but god dammit i spent 1 hours on this. That shit works as it wants and i don't know his rules.

This comes from not doing your homework. Without enough research you imagine problems where there are none and have to re-invent the bicycle on your own.
You also seem to expect to spend an hour or a day on something and be done with it; that may have been enough 15-20 years ago, but these days there's a large body of knowledge to be assimilated if you want to produce quality TAS. That is why you don't see it posted every day here, or even once a week. It's not because there's no interest in it — the standards are just too high.

That's not to say they are too high for you to meet them, just that that may take considerably more time and effort than you initially expected. ;)

degree23 said:

you hit a switch to lower a wall, then run to the other side of the room and then have to run back

Otherwise imps will kill me when i lifted up, i have to get rid of these imps before pull lever. Maybe that action is useless.

I feels like you guys trying put me in some rules which i don't give a care. TAS is just a tool. I'm not master of that tool but i have ability to make demos. Good it or bad it's your opinion.
And these demos i do not for mega puper time, just for entertainment.
// but still I bring a focus on speed

WTH I'm in center of attention?
huuh. Now i don't know replay TNT and leave it as well. For SDA it's enough i guess. but yeah yeah. It can be faster.
Will see.

Sure, you are free to record what you like the way you like it (and so is everyone else to comment on it). As you are presumably record and post not just for yourself, it makes sense to take into account the opinions of those you post it for, doesn't it?

Yes, TAS is a tool, but using it for casual (i.e. for the sake of entertainment only) demos is an odd choice. It's kind of like using a Stradivarius to play "V lesu rodilas' yolochka". ;) But hey, that's just my opinion...

Azuruish said:

And these demos i do not for mega puper time, just for entertainment.

Great! Did you mean "super" or "pooper", though? Whichever it it, I feel the entertainment value of this thread has risen sharply. :D

I don't see the issue with making TAS demos willy nilly, I've done it before, sometimes its just fun to mess around with. Personally I don't have enough patience to optimize a TAS to its fullest extent (Just look at some of the TASes I've done, like NERVE for example which was beaten by 2 minutes!). I say, just keep doing what you want to do, however, if someone is telling you that what you're doing isn't great, you shouldn't take offense. You should know that already. I don't associate TAS with 100% optimization, I just see TASes as a fun way to do speed runs, and I think that perfectionist TASes are awesome, but shouldn't be the only kind produced.

Cyberdemon531 said:

I don't associate TAS with 100% optimization, I just see TASes as a fun way to do speed runs, and I think that perfectionist TASes are awesome, but shouldn't be the only kind produced.

What's the point of using TAS if that's the case? If it doesn't go for optimization nor shows anything of interest that is barely doable outside TAS, I'd say it's a waste of time.