TAS (tools-assisted) demos

Has anyone ever tried doing a built demo to complete a level as fast as possible without triggering the "%s is turbo" message? I.e., GF127/SR127 all the time, except on that one tic every few seconds where it actually checks your speed for the message.

I was trying Doom E1M1 UV-Speed TAS, and I got 8.60 (Looper has a 7.86 from 2014, but whatever) and I got 2/3 of the door "boosts." But when I did the door boosts, I gained no speed once so ever. Any help? I think the problem was that I had momentum on both the XY coordinates, while I believe you need one of the XY coords. No DSDA upload please.

b1t1x860.zip

Linguica said:

Has anyone ever tried doing a built demo to complete a level as fast as possible without triggering the "%s is turbo" message? I.e., GF127/SR127 all the time, except on that one tic every few seconds where it actually checks your speed for the message.

If you ask me, it's basically the same as MF127/SR127 all the time :P Just think about it: You have to go north, which means you move 30 distance/frame except every something frames the speed drops to 28-29 :D So time lost is (1-28.5/30)tics = 0.05tics. So you have to get 20 those checks to actually lose single frame (with 100% chance), and you can probably manipulate the RNG or situation so that the difference is even lesser.

Looper said:

If you ask me, it's basically the same as MF127/SR127 all the time :P

I know, but it would be kind of funny to claim it's not turbo because "there's no turbo message, do you see a message? I don't..."

Huh... Would be wonderful if someone showed me angle where i could make 'edge glide' on MAP22 (Memento Mori 2. Before exit door) but as i feel i stuck there again like in MAP14...
Yep. I'm in MAP22 now.
I don't know... Maybe not enough speed. I'm used such method like in Doom2 MAP21 NM-Speed but still have problems.
//

I doubt in the doable. I spent a 5:49:23 time and no result.
Even the origin of the 'player start 1' put right exactly in exactly in the angle where the glide would have happened (I thought it will be so easy like in (Doom2 MAP21) but nope).
Let me know if it is possible in Built-style and I'll upload again my unfinished run from MAP22. Otherwise I'll ignore that opportunity.

MAP22 glide is possible. If you don't believe, just give me the demo and I'll make it. :D

It's doable? Teach me so I can go beat Cyberdemon531's nomo.

It's nearly impossible without tools assistance. It requires very precise positioning (x.0000000 coordinates).

EDIT: Also, you have to be fast enough to make it before the door closes.

Well... Here it is. Be of good cheer :P

ClumsyDoomer said:

It's nearly impossible without tools assistance. It requires very precise positioning (x.0000000 coordinates).

Hummm... Same thing in your Test Glide? There i made 'edge glide' only with slow-mo. But spent on this 3 minutes.
Also i know about MAP32... Yeah yeah yeah... 2 secs...

mm2map22help.zip

Behold

22m2_glide.zip

Quite fast ;D... Ok, Will credit you.

Interesting...
In MAP26 possible make glide between blue gates but so much time i spent on this to make it within 3-4 secs. //I'm not good in a 'glide'
Also i noticed something: In that map exist 'impassable' fences (nearly where exit door) and i thought that possible jump over it, like it is in Plutonia in MAP07
but there exist some difference - distance. If in Plutonia - there are no distance and jumping over it is quite simple,
Here... Here exist two 'impassable' fences, plus a little pit with 28 pixels...
Maybe possible somehow jump over it don't you know?

Can you post the demo for me to see? Thanks.

Do you about glide? Nope :3 It will be surprise!
Anyway I'm still working on MAP26.

Hm, I watched this new thingy and:
- you visit both secret exits. I understand this is your convention, as time-wise it makes no sense
- I don't understand why you not pick up tons of cell ammo on MAP17. You will miss it on MAP19 and beginning of MAP21, losing time (5 seconds maybe, but still).
- MAP19: Right after YK I think you choose slower of two paths to the elevator ("shaft")
- MAP19: if the arachnotron is completely blocking you, try performing damage manipulation and kill it with 2 rockets. It happens every 1 out of 8 tries, so it's not so hard. Same with a hell knight after that

I had fun watching, nevertheless. ClumsyDoomer, great job really.

vdgg said:

- you visit both secret exits. I understand this is your convention, as time-wise it makes no sense

// Well... Just for show... Not exist adequate D2ALL on Memento Mori 2.
Otherwise you can subtract time from secret levels, add to MAP15 +2 secs and you will get the best time without secrets. Final time will be within 34:00 or 35:00. So, Without secrets: 33:00, 34:00.

vdgg said:

- I don't understand why you not pick up tons of cell ammo on MAP17. You will miss it on MAP19 and beginning of MAP21, losing time (5 seconds maybe, but still).

//Well, i forgot it. Yeah i could pick up it while lift is activated.
In MAP19 i even tried catch keys immediately, but it's not worked. Maybe distance or my hands grows from ass, don't know :P
Also as you see I'm not hardcore optimizator and allow such thing like killing monsters a little longer. My suggestions about time which could be i'll describe in txt.
It happens every 1 out of 8 tries? 1/8? 12,5% probability?

Yes.

Are you familiar with -trace_thingshealth param?
You do it easier this way: look for monster's thing ID in a map editor (this case: 683) and while recording/playing back you add a command line "-trace_thingshealth 683". Your first rocket inflicted < 200 damage, so you should re-record before firing your first rocket. When your first rocket already deals > 250 damage, re-record after that. Killing a 500 HP arachnotron is then even more likely than 1/8.

vdgg said:

Very sorry, but rocket jumps are not allowed within Tyson category. You can only use the following weapons: fist, chaisaw, pistol. Nice demo, though.

Heh, I remember reading your comment about Hitherto's 1024.wad demo not being a legit Tyson run due to shooting a switch with a shotgun and thinking "that is so overly pedantic" a few years ago. Somehow to me it seemed OK since it wasn't used to hurt a monster. But now I read the definition and I guess you're right. Thank god you're at least allowed to carry these weapons!

I didn't know that using other weapons was prohibited in tyson. Good to know. It makes sense, because I could shoot a wall with a shotgun and say that the imp who was standing between the gun and the wall doesn't count as a shotgun kill. I only aimed the wall, the imp just happened to die at the same time. Oh, there might even be a map where the all-ghosts bug saved time and it could then be freely triggered with shotgun in a tyson run, which feels wrong.

Anyway, in my tyson runs I sometimes rocket boost from monsters. It is technically legit, because even though the monster is gibbed I only use it for a rocket jump without any other intention. Often the rocket jumps fail, so I need to try many times from many different monsters. It is a tyson run with rocket jumps. So, it is a tyson run.

Actually, every category is tyson. Some runs just have extra parameters added. A simple tyson run might have 7 pistol shots + 22 shotgun shots + 2 BFG shots + 42 seconds of chaingunning. It is pure tyson run with some other weapons. So, it is a tyson run.

If I start a run and aim for a tyson record, but kill all monsters with BFG, it is technically a pure tyson run that failed. So, it is a tyson run. No, wait... Actually, a failed run is any category. A failed run is like a human being who can decide to be anything. Like Jean Paul Sartre says: Existence precedes essence.

If a UV-max run does not use weapon slots 1-2, is it anti-tyson?

If I only use plasma weapons, is it a Neil deGrasse Tyson run? <3

Linguica said:

Has anyone ever tried doing a built demo to complete a level as fast as possible without triggering the "%s is turbo" message? I.e., GF127/SR127 all the time, except on that one tic every few seconds where it actually checks your speed for the message.

That is funny. It is a well-defined category, but also has a strong flavor of arbitrariness. You seem to enjoy your Doom the same way you enjoy fine wine. I guess that the amount of extra work required for such a run would greatly exceed the reward of it. It seems that the idea itself is already the whole thing. No need to actually do it, when you can enjoy the theoretical hipster concept.

Aqfaq said:

in my tyson runs I sometimes rocket boost from monsters. It is technically legit, because even though the monster is gibbed I only use it for a rocket jump without any other intention.

But you still hurting them which is invalid in my book. Tyson is (at least to me) knuckle/saw/handgun only + heavy infights.

Aqfaq said:

Actually, every category is tyson. Some runs just have extra parameters added. A simple tyson run might have 7 pistol shots + 22 shotgun shots + 2 BFG shots + 42 seconds of chaingunning. It is pure tyson run with some other weapons. So, it is a tyson run.

What?

^

uhhh

j4rio said:

^
uhhh

Man, he looks just like me!

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Memento Mori 2 UV-Speed in |35:46|
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Final result. It's probably my best D2ALL not because i tried hard as could but because of your help guys. ^_^

mm2_uv-speed.zip

Yay! Will be a fun watch for sure!
If y'all can't tell, I lose interest extremely quickly on things I want to D2ALL TAS. I'm trying my best to stay on one run to work on. A mini project I'm working on now is Zone 300 D2ALL TAS. Most levels are extremely short, so it should make nice for a mini project.

Azuruish said:

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Memento Mori 2 UV-Speed in |35:46|
==================================
^_^

You've missed an obvious, easy to perform, jump trick in m22. Shame on you!

I didn't really plan to do it, wanted to beat it non-assisted first... am I too lazy?

Anyway, there were some new tricks to me, but apparently most of them weren't brand new, just I don't watch NoMo.

I liked MAP04 best, as you only needed one wing completed, and current NoMo record gets two of them done. Then this fooling around on MAP28 was also fun; Time on MAP05 pretty much sucks and I would pick it as the worst level of the run.

Thanks for that.

Edit: Oh yeah, if I do it non-assisted, anything below 2 hours will be fine for me :)

Here is my crappy upload to YouTube of your new TAS Azuruish: http://youtu.be/-BH9MOsFkys

Without music from mm2 and with TAS HUD? Well... Thanks anyway. :)

What is a "TAS HUD" for one. Is it the HUD you can bring up by pressing F5? I'll have you know that there is many F5 modes.

Here is my Zone 300 TAS so far. I tried using turn tics in XDRE2 that are not over 10 so it looks a bit smoother when played back with PrBoom+. Tell me if you want to see this kind of turning in my future runs.

z301-04x149.zip