New Scythe 2b Demos [-complevel 2]

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Lost Heretic
Green Marine

Posts: 36
Registered: 09-07

I tried map28 yesterday. Very fun map!
So, uv-max in 7:07. 2nd exit. Not hard to improve, i think.

Attachment: s228-707.zip
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07-12-09 08:37 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

i tried watching old UV-speed demos on the updated wad and the result is as expected - very sad :(

demos for maps 01, 03, 07, 08, 09, 11, 12 (oh yeah!), 15s, 16 and 26 (yay!) survived. on map06, xit's 007 desyncs, but angus' 008 lives on. on map13, the fastest time died, but anima's pacifist 1:16 stays okay. all the lovely map10 demos and domrem's impossibly great map27 pacifist are obsolete, in the AV v1 way... i didn't watch the other categories, they'd take much more time and i doubt anything survived anyways.

i wanted to undo some of the damage, but i hated the idea of just equaling the old time to snatch the table spots like an afterflood looter... therefore just improvements here (altho in the -1s manner)

map02 UV-speed in 0:34
map04 UV-speed in 0:24
map23 UV-speed/pacifist in 0:24

Attachment: s2dew1.zip
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07-13-09 20:21 #

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myk
volveré y seré millones

Posts: 14839
Registered: 04-02

What everyone should do is write on the demo text file that the demos are for Version 2 (that is how Erik calls it in the WAD text file). If all the new demos say that, it will become clearer that the ones that don't say it were likely recorded with the initial release. Additionally, Andy will be able to sort them out on the DSDA so we can easily tell what version each is for, in the long run. In any case, take the obsoleteness as a positive excuse to improve them, not as a problem with the old demos we can still watch :)

PS: I added "Doom+ compatible, -complevel 2" to the thread title so we can easily encourage to have them all in Doom format.

07-13-09 20:40 #

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Erik
Forum Staple

Posts: 2088
Registered: 10-01

Note that there now is a new trick on map14 ready to be exploited.

07-13-09 21:14 #

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Anima Zero
Forum Regular

Posts: 779
Registered: 09-04

I pretty much knew what Erik was talking about with map14 so I did two Pacifist runs. First on UV (Which is also Reality), the other on NM (Not Reality. Rev socked me one as I was leaving the BK room). Neither run took too long to get, maybe 10 mins tops for both.

Both demos have a time of 0:25. I suspect 0:24 is possible with perfect running, lower even still if you can get back to that first lift in time before it goes back up.

Attaching zipfile now.

Attachment: s214demos.zip
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07-13-09 22:38 #

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tatsurd-cacocaco
Member

Posts: 479
Registered: 07-08

What is Doom+? Complevel 2 emulate only Doom2.exe of v1.9, don't it?

07-13-09 23:55 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

how about 21 :) i spent an hour hunting it, because i started with a great run where i skipped the exit line, then followed with a very low 22... oh god. :)

map14 UV-speed/pacifist in 0:21 (plus some funny suffering with not getting 21)

EDIT: UGH, i forgot to add the info about scythe 2 FINAL to the text file, sorry!
EDIT2: and it's a silent pacifist, too. damn, i'm impulsive at posting.

Attachment: s214-021.zip
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Last edited by dew on 07-14-09 at 00:08

07-13-09 23:59 #

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Grazza
helium hydride

Posts: 11798
Registered: 07-02

tatsurd-cacocaco said:
What is Doom+? Complevel 2 emulate only Doom2.exe of v1.9, don't it?

I think he meant doom2+ (a.k.a. doom2-plus). Thread title amended.

Doom2+ is a hacked version of Doom2.exe that extends some of the limits without changing the behaviour otherwise. So prboom+ -complevel 2 also emulates doom2+. Behaviour is the same between doom2.exe, doom2-plus and prboom+ with -complevel 2, except for any critical bugs and crashes due to limits.

You can get doom2+ here. But remember that if you use it, you will need to apply the deh patch from Scythe2 using dehacked.exe. It's simpler to use prboom+, of course.

07-14-09 03:28 #

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gggmork
If you can make any sense of this post, congratulations

Posts: 2415
Registered: 06-07

I like the first 2 minutes of this run, but after that the time was quite disappointing (Under 5:00 is probably possible. Stupid cybers didn't infight and I took forever playing hide and seek).
I purposely skipped the 3x afrit linedef trigger (takes luck/attempts) by sr50 (non-automated per compet-n or whatever rules) and punching over it (not 100% sure if punching helps confuse the engine.. seemed to help me).

Attachment: s228-616.zip
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07-14-09 06:25 #

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Erik
Forum Staple

Posts: 2088
Registered: 10-01

Nice demos (and nice elevator catch). I think you got the basic strategy down for map28 gggmork but the later part of the demo can be more organized as you mention.

07-14-09 09:42 #

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myk
volveré y seré millones

Posts: 14839
Registered: 04-02

Grazza said:
I think he meant doom2+ (a.k.a. doom2-plus). Thread title amended.

Yeah, I wrote it like that, perhaps not too wisely, because speaking in general they're just "Doom+" and "-complevel 2", as far as behavior is concerned. Whether DOOM or DOOM II is used depends on the IWAD passed to them. But Doom2+ should be unambiguous, especially as otherwise someone could end up downloading the Ultimate-Doom+ patch, applying it to Doom from The Ultimate DOOM, which is -complevel 3 and would still work for this albeit incompatibly; so all the better!

But remember that if you use it, you will need to apply the deh patch from Scythe2 using dehacked.exe.

Indeed, plus amend the PWAD (or a copy, if you want to keep an unmodified one to hop onto public online servers) with DeuSF. The whole procedure is described here.

Additionally, this large WAD should lag DOSBox more than a usual vanilla WAD. While I haven't tested it on DOSBox myself and maybe it would still be fine on some potent systems, it might require Windows 98 or the like.

07-14-09 10:35 #

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Anima Zero
Forum Regular

Posts: 779
Registered: 09-04

Did a UV-Max for map 30. I got a 16:19 yesterday, but wasn't satisfied with that and thusly went for a better time this morning. I managed to get a 14:43 second exit.

Everything went decently well enough, but there's still some rough edges in the run. Namely any possible strategy improvements and one Afrit who was being a royal jerk at the end.

Also one minor bonus demo where I got an All-Ghosts bug to trigger. Worth it for laughs.

Attaching zipfile now.

Attachment: s2301443.zip
This has been downloaded 56 time(s).

07-14-09 14:47 #

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kimo_xvirus
Junior Member

Posts: 221
Registered: 03-08

MAP28 UV-Speed in 0:17

Attachment: s228-017.zip
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07-14-09 16:11 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

map30 UV-speed in 1:25

romero's position was very provocative, so it was just a matter of finding a good sniping place. not optimized at all, just... done.

and guess what, i got an all-ghosts demo, too! i guess the map is prone to them. i couldn't find a way to exploit it, though. :)

Attachment: s230-125.zip
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07-15-09 20:23 #

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Grazza
helium hydride

Posts: 11798
Registered: 07-02

AFAIK, the only way to exploit the all-ghosts bug (to one's advantage, rather than for amusement value) is if there is a damage/exit sector in the map. No other type of exit can work when that behaviour starts.

07-15-09 20:30 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

map11 UV-speed in 0:22
map13 UV-speed in 0:59
map17 UV-speed in 0:39
map19 nomo in 0:39

domrem's demo on map11 isn't desynced, but i noticed some unused shortcut possibilities. :) map17 is for gusta's entertainment. map13 shows a new little trick, but there's still some i couldn't get right. i could grab the YK with a RL boost, would it be possible without it? also, an archie jump to grab the BK would save some horde trouble later on. or possibly jumping directly to the exit opening button?

and could someone record that map19 trick with monsters, pretty please? :)

Attachment: s2dew2.zip
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07-19-09 19:23 #

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Anima Zero
Forum Regular

Posts: 779
Registered: 09-04

Did a -nomonsters speedrun for map29 in 1:40. Shows off several speed tricks I managed to find and couple more described in the txtfile that I couldn't pull off in this run.

Whether or not any of these tricks can be applied to a UV-Speed is the big question. Here's hoping someone is brave enough to attempt it.

Attaching zipfile now.

Attachment: s229nomo.zip
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07-21-09 00:11 #

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Gusta
Forum Regular

Posts: 670
Registered: 02-04

Anima Zero said:
Did a -nomonsters speedrun for map29 in 1:40. Shows off several speed tricks I managed to find and couple more described in the txtfile that I couldn't pull off in this run.

Whether or not any of these tricks can be applied to a UV-Speed is the big question. Here's hoping someone is brave enough to attempt it.

Attaching zipfile now.

Nice but, man, it's very far away from the quickest (and much easier) route. (and I am not talking about some undoable glides:-)

07-21-09 08:52 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

map29, ha ha. this is a huuuge puzzle... immediatelly after s2v2 came out, gusta hinted i should check it for some glides... and some days later, we came to the conclusion they're impossible or useless. :)

the one through the small blue bars seems optimal for UV-speed route, but after some research, i have to say i am absolutely unable to do it. there's a REALLY WEIRD issue with the adjoining sector/alcove with the blue skull symbol... it bumps me off the gliding position and denies even my best attempts. i'm sure that's the cause, because when i hacked the map in doombuilder and made it a plain, one sector wall, i glided through within a second. gusta also said something about complevels, but i don't swing that way... :)

i had similar problems when gliding through the red bars, no luck with getting in position and staying there reliably. funny thing is... with iddqd/nomonsters, i was able to pass through the straight part of the red bars... you know, the 'cack_handed glide' :) after giving it some thought with gusta, we think it's for the best, because it makes the map more challenging and promises a more interesting UV-speed.

anima, you don't need RL for that final jump, sr50 is enough. ;) but your jump over the yellow bars gives me ideas...
/rant

07-21-09 13:04 #

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Grazza
helium hydride

Posts: 11798
Registered: 07-02

The "obvious" blue bars glide is certainly possible. I can't judge very easily whether it should be considered an "easy" one, because I am very out of practice with these things, and my hardware has changed a lot since I last did this kind of stuff. But I have actually done it. I could record a proof nomo demo just in case this is really in doubt.

07-21-09 13:30 #

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Gusta
Forum Regular

Posts: 670
Registered: 02-04

No, that "obvious" glide is impossible here :-) dew could explain ...

07-21-09 13:56 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

shut up, gusta :)
grazza, if you can do it, don't bother with a -nomo, just don't shoot and run to the bars. the rev will remain dormant and nothing will bother you for a long time. the rest is 'easy' compared to this. gusta is already optimizing a different, slightly slower route, so wasting his effort would be great fun! :)

07-21-09 14:00 #

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Grazza
helium hydride

Posts: 11798
Registered: 07-02

No luck with a nomo recording so far... I'll just mention one thing - my successful attempts were when not recording but with -complevel 2. The only difference there of course is longtics, which might be critical to this. Then again, these glides can be very frustrating and very random. And now I haven't been able to repeat it with -longtics or when not recording... It reminds me of the third glide in Extremal E1M7 in terms of difficulty and behaviour.

07-21-09 14:46 #

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Gusta
Forum Regular

Posts: 670
Registered: 02-04

dew: by optimizing you mean that terrible one exit in 0:50 that I got? :-D

07-21-09 21:22 #

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cack_handed
Mini-Member

Posts: 47
Registered: 03-06

I couldn't resist a try at the impossible Map29 glide and recorded a fairly shambolic -nomonsters in 29 seconds. It's definitely feasible for UV if you're confident of surviving the rest of the run. I included my best attempt in the Zip. I get through at about the 7 second mark but shortly afterwards run out of skill.

Attachment: s229o029.zip
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07-21-09 23:59 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

i couldn't resist your TAS invitation... here's how the rest of the level is played. :)

Attachment: s229x016.zip
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07-22-09 00:34 #

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Anima Zero
Forum Regular

Posts: 779
Registered: 09-04

New demo from me. It's a UV-fast for map 28 with a time of 13:09. Could obviously be much quicker, but my focus was more on trying to survive because this is one nasty level on -fast.

Attaching zipfile now.

Attachment: s228f1309.zip
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07-22-09 02:42 #

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Anima Zero
Forum Regular

Posts: 779
Registered: 09-04

My new UV-fast for map 28 kinda makes me wonder how I managed to get that high of a time in the first place, even when I was focused on survival there.

Time for this run is 9:43. Still quite improvable in several places. I wouldn't be surprised if this could go a minute or even two lower with enough strategy tweaks.

On the plus side, there's plenty of close calls in this run. I think someone up there liked me when I went for that switch the final cybie guards and made my escape.

Attaching zipfile now.

Attachment: s228f943.zip
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07-22-09 14:10 #

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dew
Feral Kid

Posts: 2273
Registered: 05-08

map15 UV-speed/pacifist in 0:34
map15 UV-speed/pacifist secret exit in 0:19
map19 UV-speed in 0:35 :)))

map15 is just me being a jerk with 1sec improvements, but... wooo hooo, i got the map19 trick with monsters!

Attachment: s2dew3.zip
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07-22-09 15:04 #

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