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General Rainbow Bacon
may have been DoomHero85 at some point


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I have already beaten all the way through av.wad on UV and needed a bigger challenge, so I've begun recording demos of me using the -solo-net parameter, just to make the maps harder. Let's see some more -solo-net demos to prove your skills, doesn't have to be av.wad.

Anyway, here's a uv-max of av.wad map 01 in 3:37 using -solo-net.

Attachment: av1sn337.zip
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

Old Post 08-25-10 16:42 #
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Grazza
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FYI, there are a number of compet-n demos of this type, especially by Vincent Catalaa. Look for ones with names ending with "net1".

Note: to play back net1/-solo-net demos with prboom+, you need to add "-solo-net" to the command line.

Old Post 08-25-10 17:45 #
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Phml
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-solo-net can be fun to record, too bad it's not as simple to watch (well technically it is, but compared to other demos where you can just drop it on prboom+, there's an added step).

Anyway, I gave it (AV map01 max) a shot : 1:51.

Attachment: av01c151.zip
This has been downloaded 25 time(s).

Old Post 08-25-10 18:24 #
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Grazza
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Phml said:
-solo-net can be fun to record, too bad it's not as simple to watch (well technically it is, but compared to other demos where you can just drop it on prboom+, there's an added step).
Yes, I made a feature request some years ago for an "auto-adding of command-line options" feature (analogous to autoloading of wads), but it was never implemented.

It would be quite easy to cater for any of the existing net1 demos without a big list of specific patterns, as most (all?) of them include "net1" in their file name.

Old Post 08-25-10 19:07 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Yeah, that also bugged me about watching -host demos on zdoom, but a couple years ago they made -host demos drag-and-droppable.

Old Post 08-26-10 02:33 #
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Phml
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AV map04 UV max -solo-net in 6:29

Attachment: av04c629.zip
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).

Old Post 08-26-10 23:09 #
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TendaMonsta
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Is this going to be the official Solonet Demo Thread? If so then I am interested once my speedrunning break is over and it should be retitled I guess.

This is indeed a very interesting way to play and phml's AV06 demo shows a good example of how fun it could be. Doomhero your demo desyncs for me for some odd reason so I couldn't get anything out of it, but please make more. Solo-net and respawn may end up as my favorite type of demos. Ksutra would be a fun for solo net especially with all the Cyber spamming.

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Old Post 08-28-10 13:19 #
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TendaMonsta
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For some reason phml's AV01 and AV06 demos don't desync while all other net demos I've tried to watch do.

I add the solo-net parameter and the correct complevel, but the demos desync right away. I am using the updated version of prboom-plus also (2.5.0.7). Can someone assist me.

Here is my command line too -complevel 9 -iwad doom2.wad -file uacultra.wad -playdemo ua02sc1020 -solo-net

Is there anything I'm doing wrong?

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Old Post 08-28-10 13:32 #
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4mer
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TendaMonsta said:
For some reason phml's AV01 and AV06 demos don't desync while all other net demos I've tried to watch do.

There are two versions of Alien Vendetta have you tried both?

EDIT: IIRC There may be a similar situation for UACUltra as well (a different version).

Old Post 08-28-10 14:15 #
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vdgg
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4mer is right.
DoomHero85: please use the second release of AV for everything, except when you want to record a "Valley of Echoes" demo. Second release has 23 819 412 Bytes and is from 2002.

Andy Olivera: please take note of the WAD version of this demo ;)

Old Post 08-28-10 14:50 #
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Phml
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My UACUltra map02 demo was on the 1.0 release - I think the newest is 1.2 .

Old Post 08-28-10 16:38 #
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TendaMonsta
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That explains it all. I thought I was just going crazy this morning. I will contribute to these types of demos once I feel like recording again.

Thank you guys!

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Old Post 08-28-10 17:32 #
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Grazza
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TendaMonsta said:
Here is my command line too -complevel 9 -iwad doom2.wad -file uacultra.wad -playdemo ua02sc1020 -solo-net

Also, don't force a complevel for playback. It is necessary only in rare cases. For almost all demos, the autodetection of the demo type works fine, and forcing the wrong complevel could cause a desync.

Old Post 08-28-10 19:38 #
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TendaMonsta
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Hello all. I think my small break from demo recording is over. I am using an all keyboard setting now until I somehow materialize a USB mouse, or get off my lazy ass and get a job.

I gave a crack at AV03 with solo-net. My objective was to get a time below 4:30 and I met that goal. I think if I change the route 4 minutes would be obtainable. I think you should rush to get the blue key and cause infighting then kill the other demons that you left behind.

All keyboard is actually fun and so is solo-net. I hope that this thread gets some more activity in the future.

Attachment: av03c420.zip
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

Old Post 08-29-10 02:45 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Does anyone know if all av maps have coop-only monsters?

Old Post 08-29-10 03:15 #
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4mer
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TimeOfDeath said:
Does anyone know if all av maps have coop-only monsters?

13, 16, 21 and 30 don't but the rest do (on UV).

Old Post 08-29-10 07:10 #
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Angus Thermopyle
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I did Scythe Map26 UV Speed in 0:10. I died once.

From the txt-file:
"Here is a new category for Doom: speedrunning with death abuse. (Very common in other games, check SDA.)

If you continue after death the map will not be reset. This can be very useful for speedruns if the exit is near the start, as you can see in this demo.

But there are of course other possibilities like pa02 for example. ;)"

Attachment: sc26c010.zip
This has been downloaded 33 time(s).

Old Post 08-29-10 09:47 #
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tempun
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TendaMonsta said:


I gave a crack at AV03 with solo-net.


1 revived caco at the end isn't rekilled.

Old Post 08-29-10 12:48 #
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tempun said:

1 revived caco at the end isn't rekilled.


I watched the demo with the advanced HUD to make sure all enemies were killed and it said 168/168. I was going by the original rule that monsters had to be killed once.

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Old Post 08-29-10 14:00 #
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vdgg said:
Not killing revived monsters means making a failed Max demo.



Ok I understand now and will redo the demo in short time. This map is enjoyable so I don't have a problem redoing it. I might even try a different route.

Don't upload AV03c420.lmp to the DSDA page please!

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Old Post 08-29-10 15:02 #
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Improved time with no resurrections.

Attachment: av03c412.zip
This has been downloaded 21 time(s).

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Old Post 08-29-10 15:22 #
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Grazza
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Angus Thermopyle said:
Here is a new category for Doom: speedrunning with death abuse.
Good point: -solo-net does open up this gameplay possibility. Whereas compet-n rules don't allow it, I think we can just view it as two different demo categories.

Old Post 08-29-10 21:29 #
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dew
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it is not a new category, technically. timeofdeath already recorded some death demos on coopbuild, iirc.
it's also a commonly used technique in system shock(2) speedruns. :)

Old Post 08-29-10 23:55 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Yeah, the suicide shortcuts were/are common in coop servers, since the respawning behaviour pretty much encourages it. The oldschoolers must have done that back in the day too? :)

Some coop wads actually require you to die if you want to progress through the map, and health is usually/sometimes really scarce or non-existant, so the wad relies on the respawning behaviour. For single player coop wad demos, I add "deaths allowed" or "no deaths" (except it gets kinda weird when playing "no deaths"-style on a map that requires you to die, like dib28a map22).

Old Post 08-30-10 04:52 #
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Angus Thermopyle
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Ok, it's not 'new'. (I meant to add a question mark, but it was too late.)

And we already have death exits, which is also a type of death abuse.

Thanks for mentioning System Shock, I didn't know about the speedrun of the first game, that has been published this year. I'm now off to watch it. :)

Old Post 08-30-10 06:55 #
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tempun
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Grazza said:
Whereas compet-n rules don't allow it,

What rule?

Old Post 08-30-10 16:37 #
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dew
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tempun said:

What rule?


the one so obvious it didn't have to be written down. :)

doom2 map01 solo-net uv-max with death abuse in 0:35

so silly... anyone wanna improve it?

Attachment: lv01c035.zip
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).

Old Post 08-30-10 20:48 #
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Grazza
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tempun said:
What rule?
There's a compet-n rule that respawning after a death invalidates a demo. This is mainly intended for movie runs, which would be made kind of silly because then recording a valid, say, 30uv run would not be much of a challenge: you could just keep trying each map until you exited it successfully. But the rule also applies for coop runs - and you'll notice that no compet-n coop demos feature deaths other than death exits from maps. I recall AdamH clarified (and extended) the rule for coop demos where both players die in the process of exiting (e.g. pc01-007): the corpse of the non-exiting player must still be moving at the point when the other player exits.

The technical difference with a death exit is that you are not respawning the player (i.e. pressing the spacebar to restart). The engine, in its wisdom, just accepts that you exited a map, and places you at the start of the next one with 100% health. That's the basis on which movie runs with dead exits are allowed for compet-n.

I'd give links if the compet-n site were more readily accessible. Edit: OK, there's this. Sadly, a lot of clarification of finer points of the rules are contained in compet-n forum posts or private communications between players and AdamH. I guess he wanted to keep the FAQ and Rules pages relatively uncluttered, and not reading like a legal goobledegook.

Old Post 08-30-10 21:41 #
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VinceDSS
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net1 demos, that reminds me of my old days. I was trying to get a bit more challenge out of doom2 :) 30uvmax and 30fa were just not satisfying me.

Old Post 09-12-10 17:40 #
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myk
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Grazza said:
OK, there's this.
For some reason, that gives me:
code:
An Error Has Occured! This topic doesn't exist on this board. 1083234667 : -1.
While most coop demos were added to Compet-n in a later stage from a site called Coop-n (linked to here; unfortunately it used that stupid robot file so it's not at the Internet Archive) which may have included clearer cooperative demo rules, the rule seems to come with the first net-x demo at Compet-n, 07uvnet2, where Widlake states:

There were NO deaths due to monster attacks [ until Level 08 ;-( of course ] and there were NO team-FRAG-gings - Respawning "mid-level" would make a nonsense of any "Competition"... so DON'T do it ! Just lay DEAD ! [ And let the surviving marines complete the level ;-) ] ... Until "revived" at the beginning of the Next Level - This would be kind of like calling in a "reserve" marine ;-) Reasons L8R...
He then repeats more or less the same thing below where he gives the challenge to record cooperative demos for DOOM and DOOM II.

Old Post 09-13-10 07:23 #
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