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odysseyofnoises
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In zdaemon I have, in several instances, witnessed players void gliding during deathmatch

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Old Post Jul 30 2012 19:53 #
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Looper
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I went to test a situation like this with xdre:
One wall is going directly north-east and second is going directly north. Then I placed 2 players to form a "wall" to test if it's possible to do the void glide.
| = wall going directly north
/ = wall going directly north-east
oo = two players forming a wall
g = guy trying to go to the void
... = space

...|
oo|
g/
/

For some reason, guy trying to go to the void bounced from the wall to south-west with speed of 29.120328. The strange part is that it kept going with that speed, even with WT tics inserted :P It stopped when he hit a wall.


When the void glide succeed with normal walls, the distance moved is over 60. I think I got it as high as 67.93.

Old Post Jul 30 2012 21:47 #
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odysseyofnoises
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how exactly am i supposed to push the button from the outside in e2m6?

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Old Post Jul 30 2012 22:22 #
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Archy
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odysseyofnoises said:
how exactly am i supposed to push the button from the outside in e2m6?

This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out. I've spend over 3 hours try to get the switch to activate, and nothing has happened. Getting outside of the map was the easy part -- and that wasn't even easy.

Old Post Jul 30 2012 23:02 #
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odysseyofnoises
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ive managed to get it two times when testing, but now ive been trying for hours and cant get it... i got to the void quickly though

Old Post Jul 30 2012 23:09 #
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Looper
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Just look perpendicular to the wall and slide to the correct position. Correct position in this case is that you can barely see the button. That's the easiest way I think.

Fastest way should be to use some other angles, but I think that would require some calculations or extreme amount of luck.

Old Post Jul 30 2012 23:24 #
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dew
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looper: i've experienced this type of elastic mega-collision too, even when using just walls. i actually got it to work (almost, kinda) reliably and i remember gusta talking about exploiting a similar (the same?) effect for a speed trick in some future map of his.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...962#post1091962

here, if you move the barrels around a little, you'll get the elastic effect eventually. :P

Old Post Jul 30 2012 23:44 #
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Looper
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Looper said:
For some reason, guy trying to go to the void bounced from the wall to south-west with speed of 29.120328. The strange part is that it kept going with that speed, even with WT tics inserted :P It stopped when he hit a wall.

Whoops! Probably because the doomguy was midair (and hit the ground at the same tic as he hit the wall)... silly me. Although the deceleration was kind of slow but I guess it was still normal :p



I admit that he looks like John Cleese, huehuehue.

Old Post Jul 31 2012 01:31 #
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Grazza
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Regarding pressing the e2m6 exit switch from the void (and other such cases), the main point to understand is that this isn't a normal switch trick. You can't press it through the wall. This type of linedef will "eat" use-key presses. You need to press the end of the exit linedef itself, and obviously from the correct side. For this, you need to approach it pretty much as in a glide, and align yourself perfectly with it, and be pressing use at exactly the right moment so that you are in contact with the linedef but infinitessimally on the correct side of it. As I say, it is just like a glide, except that at the critical moment you press the switch rather than slide through a gap.

This is one reason why void glides are only useful in a narrow range of circumstances - the exit linedef needs to touch the void directly and the player needs enough room to slide up to it.

Other demos that use this:
http://doomedsda.us/wad1736.html
http://doomedsda.us/wad1501.html (my nomo - there's no void glide here, but there is a linedef that eats use-key presses)

This is one "hidden" feature that makes xepop's p2m6 so impressive - to the untrained eye it looks like a normal switch trick (and that he executes it a little uncleanly), whereas it is something requiring precision that he accomplishes very quickly.

Old Post Jul 31 2012 05:22 #
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Memfis
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Maybe old news but I noticed that in Resurgence beta1 map30 I'm able to do a classic guided glide without positioning myself "properly". Instead of 0 angle I can use something like 23, didn't know that was possible. Recorded with -complevel 2 so that I could use -longtics.

Attachment: resur-glide.zip
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).

Last edited by Memfis on Aug 29 2014 at 13:44

Old Post Aug 29 2014 11:14 #
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ClumsyDoomer
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I'm working on a 2002ado.wad TAS demo and stopped on E1M5 because I decided to test Memfis' idea of a void glide. Is any of these glides possible?
I tried all of these, but I only got a wobble on two of them and nothing else (the momentum I gained on wobbling was not enough, it goes up to ~17 and stops, -turbo 255 didn't help as well).
P.S.: There is a test demo in an attachment.

Attachment: 2002ado-glide.zip
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).

Old Post Mar 3 2015 13:32 #
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kraflab
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ClumsyDoomer said:
I'm working on a 2002ado.wad TAS demo and stopped on E1M5 because I decided to test Memfis' idea of a void glide. Is any of these glides possible?

http://i.imgur.com/iYr2Yln.png
http://i.imgur.com/yVzGhJg.png

Yes. I did the rightmost one; i'm not aware of being able to void glide except in that precise configuration (90 degree angle, corner facing east). I did it -complevel 3 in normal play.

Old Post Mar 4 2015 05:05 #
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Grazza
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kraflab said:
I'm not aware of being able to void glide except in that precise configuration (90 degree angle, corner facing east).

You're a bit out of date there. dew and myself spotted some additional possibilities a few years back. I used the idea later when I eventually found a map where it was useful.

And there is the brand new revelation that the adjoining wall can even be north-south (i.e. 135 degree angle). See this post (and earlier/later posts). Still not clear how much of a speed boost and/or obstruction is necessary for that to work.

Old Post Mar 4 2015 05:41 #
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kraflab
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Grazza said:
You're a bit out of date there. dew and myself spotted some additional possibilities a few years back. I used the idea later when I eventually found a map where it was useful.

And there is the brand new revelation that the adjoining wall can even be north-south (i.e. 135 degree angle). See this post (and earlier/later posts). Still not clear how much of a speed boost and/or obstruction is necessary for that to work.

Ah interesting. I wish this kind of information was summarized and placed in some centralized location. Most of the common things are easy to get to but it seems like there are tons of things either hidden in various places or even undocumented altogether.

Old Post Mar 4 2015 06:21 #
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ClumsyDoomer
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I think you made the wrong glide because you were too high above that slime area. :D I was talking about sector 20.
Another map screenshot with comments
So, I've tried all of these glides and ALMOST succeeded on the fourth one (that corner between linedefs 207 and 208). Momentum went up to 28 and didn't want to increase anymore. With -turbo 255, momentum increases up to ~29 and drops to ~27.
As for others... I've never made a void glide before, so I don't know how they work. No one of the others worked for me, but it's too early to say that they're impossible.

Old Post Mar 5 2015 00:07 #
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kraflab
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Wow, I completely misread your first image :P
I couldn't manage to slip into the void at any of those spots, although the switch seemed to really want to let me in.

Old Post Mar 5 2015 02:10 #
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dew
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So you've found a corner that looks like a magical door into the void, eh? Always idclip to the other side and check the void landscape first, it will save you a lot of time and grief. There may be a "void hill" on the other side at the height of your void corner, meaning you have no free space to glide into.

Old Post Mar 5 2015 08:53 #
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ClumsyDoomer
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Wait a minute. Is this glide pointless then? It's impossible to run directly to the exit button because of height difference + it's impossible to "teleport" between map boundaries because a slimy sector kills you before you reach the southern border of the map.
Okay then. At least I've learned something about void glides. :D

Old Post Mar 5 2015 10:48 #
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Grazza
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The first thing to check if you are thinking of a void glide is whether the exit can be activated even if you reach an arbitrary position in the void. Most maps can be instantly discarded on that basis before you even start looking for possible void-glide locations.

Old Post Mar 5 2015 12:51 #
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Linguica


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Has anyone ever, like, formally documented the movement / collision code in Doom, and calculated the actual conditions necessary for tricks like the void glide to work?

Old Post Mar 5 2015 18:26 #
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jongo
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RjY blesses us with code analysis every now and then when ppl cannot figure something out, usually it's not about collision though. There's one such post in this very thread. Sadly, all the useful info is scattered all over the subforum, and gets lost and dusted after a while. I've seen one nifty post about collision by some other person, which i, of course, cannot find at the moment. It involved some form of an explanation about the mechanics behind clipping through certain walls. Hopefully someone remembers where to find it.

That said, it would be amazing to have everything documented and stored in one place. And complete collision code documentation would be very useful for pretty much every speedrunner. Except for Looper, who already knows everything about the engine quirks anyway :p

Old Post Mar 5 2015 23:33 #
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Looper
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I know something, but I don't have any summarized/generalized facts. Just random theories inside of my head, made from testing all kind of different things.

Guess: There's an in-between frame check for collision (or everytime player hits a wall?), but it doesn't work properly when going north/east (sign error?), so it goes double speed (wallrun). When there's a diagonal wall like the one used to get to the void, player gets twice the error, one because the player is going north and one because the player is going east. That's why the max distance moved in single tic is (probably) (60+60)^0.5 = ~85. The sign error might cause the ludicrous momentum change sometimes, but it's all guess D:

Old Post Mar 6 2015 13:18 #
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Linguica


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lol ugh, trying to understand the collision code is a nightmare
code:
P_PlayerThink() P_MovePlayer() P_Thrust() P_RunThinkers() P_MobjThinker() P_XYMovement() P_TryMove() P_CheckPosition() P_SlideMove() P_PathTraverse() P_BlockLinesIterator() PIT_AddLineIntercepts() P_TraverseIntercepts() PTR_SlideTraverse() P_HitSlideLine()

Old Post Mar 6 2015 20:38 #
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