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Xeriphas1994
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Posts: 169
Registered: 06-07
Has anyone been able to verify this?  No doubt it would take forever to get exactly the spawn sequence you needed, but that ledge looks real in DeePsea.

EDIT: heh, even in a TAS, it does take forever

Last edited by Xeriphas1994 on 02-11-12 at 15:33
Old Post 02-11-12 15:24 #
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Grazza
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Posts: 11784
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If you mean, has someone used this idea in an actual Tyson demo, then yes. By tailoring the player's movements suitably, the PRNG can be encouraged to provide an arch-vile pretty reliably.

http://doomedsda.us/wad945m230.html (scroll down to "Tyson")
Old Post 02-11-12 15:29 #
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Xeriphas1994
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Posts: 169
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* blink *

Wow, I seem to have misread vdgg's spreadsheet.  Sorry for wasting your time again!  I'll bring you an SDL bug report or something...

(EDIT: yes I know you aren't a port maintainer, but it's the only way I know to create a long, *civil* thread :>

Last edited by Xeriphas1994 on 02-11-12 at 15:52
Old Post 02-11-12 15:44 #
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xepop
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Posts: 202
Registered: 10-09
"Recorded September 19th 2011.
I'm probably the first to do it without TAS."

Heh.
Old Post 02-12-12 08:15 #
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Altima
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One observation on the Arch-Vile spawning due to movement that can be argued -- unless something over on the Doom Wiki is wrong or not updated -- is that the Archie spawns in a set chance.

Doom Wiki says 2/256 (0.78% chance) of it spawning an Arch-Vile.

Is there any way we can confirm, deny, or prove, that specific movement combinations will improve/reduce specific monster spawns, or is it something that is simply set in stone and you must have luck on your side?

Not saying it isn't possible, but I thought I'd open the idea up for debate or testing. Wouldn't be the first time weird quirks were found in Doom's programming ;)
Old Post 02-28-12 08:51 #
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xepop
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Posts: 202
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What I looked to source, it's 3/256. It depends on rng only and in that map there's basically only you and revenant changing it before first spawn. After that, it becomes more complex because more monsters are awake. As a proof that specific movement combinations will improve/reduce specific monster spawns one doesn't have to go further than Looper's tyson demo. One can even go try that "strat" themself.

E: oh and btw, movement does affect only indirectly (monsters doing different stuff based on you)

Last edited by xepop on 02-28-12 at 10:01
Old Post 02-28-12 09:30 #
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Altima
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Considering I've tried the same method a great deal before out of curiosity, I didn't seem to have any luck with an Arch-Vile spawning regularly as the 3rd monster. One demo proves it works, but my question is, how many times would those specific movements spawn the Arch-Vile as the third monster, over the course of... 500 attempts? 1,000 attempts? Then that's where we could see clear cut evidence. Personally, I noticed not much of a difference and they didn't seem to spawn any more common than normal.

I may give it a try again just for testing purposes, but I won't knock anything as not-possible at this point. As I said, strange quirks are still being found in the engine ;D
Old Post 02-28-12 11:05 #
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Memfis
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Altima said:
my question is, how many times would those specific movements spawn the Arch-Vile as the third monster, over the course of... 500 attempts?

Those specific movements? 500 times. The game is fully deterministic, remember?
Old Post 02-28-12 11:31 #
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xepop
Junior Member


Posts: 202
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It was very reliable (I mean like 9/10) if I remember correctly both in our coop (one pistol shot difference) and apparently in single, too. If it were just for luck, it might be still undone.

e: ups, I remembered incorrectly (what I said in edit, not original text, dammit)

Last edited by xepop on 02-28-12 at 11:51
Old Post 02-28-12 11:35 #
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Xeriphas1994
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Posts: 169
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Memfis said:
Those specific movements? 500 times. The game is fully deterministic, remember?

Heh.  I think he means 500 attempts by a human, which would differ microscopically from each other, thus inducing (over time) variable numbers of RNG calls by the monsters.  Well, unless it was Steffen Winterfeldt.   ;>
Old Post 02-28-12 17:06 #
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Looper
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Posts: 385
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It doesn't have to be exactly same movement to spawn arch-vile as a third monster with the method I used. Just few key points have to go correct: the first room and how to move after teleporting to the final room. For me, it didn't matter if arch-vile spawns as a 1st, 2nd or a 3rd monster. It just happened to be 3rd. 9/10 is pretty good estimate to get it work if you do it many times.
Old Post 02-28-12 18:02 #
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NiTROACTiVE
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That is a crazy way to kill the Icon of Sin! I mean, you would usually use the rocket launcher to do it due to the fact the target was far away.
Old Post 02-29-12 03:09 #
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Altima
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Xeriphas1994 said:

Heh.  I think he means 500 attempts by a human, which would differ microscopically from each other, thus inducing (over time) variable numbers of RNG calls by the monsters.  Well, unless it was Steffen Winterfeldt.   ;>


This, exactly.
Old Post 02-29-12 14:03 #
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