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dew
superfiend


Posts: 4236
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there are two bar closing lines, it's a redundancy measure against what you are attempting, hehe. it should still be possible to skip both, but it will take some grinding and rocket boosting.

Old Post May 12 2012 10:11 #
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Hock
Banned


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I'm up to doing memfis' trick on map04, and managed to get 33 seconds on map03, but For some odd reason on map4 the archvile doesn't want to come out of the teleporter :\

Attachment: 04prcp.zip
This has been downloaded 31 time(s).

Old Post May 12 2012 18:17 #
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Memfis
Honestly, semen doesn't taste that bad.


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Hock said:
but For some odd reason on map4 the archvile doesn't want to come out of the teleporter :\

You need to cross this line and shoot at least once.

Old Post May 12 2012 18:24 #
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Looper
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Hock said:
I'm up to doing memfis' trick on map04, and managed to get 33 seconds on map03, but For some odd reason on map4 the archvile doesn't want to come out of the teleporter :\

What comp level is that demo, hock? Desyncs with plutonia as an iwad or am I doing something wrong?

Old Post May 12 2012 18:29 #
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Hock
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Paska said:
What comp level is that demo, hock? Desyncs with plutonia as an iwad or am I doing something wrong?

I changed it to complevel 4 this time, and also does work on any version of prboom. Well, at least it does on my computer. I'm not sure what is happening. Where is it desyncing?

Old Post May 12 2012 18:34 #
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Looper
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Hock said:
I changed it to complevel 4 this time, and also does work on any version of prboom. Well, at least it does on my computer. I'm not sure what is happening. Where is it desyncing?

Map03, near the lost souls, again.

Old Post May 12 2012 18:35 #
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xepop
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Obviously you didn't.

-iwad plutonia.wad -file prcp.wad

Old Post May 12 2012 18:47 #
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odysseyofnoises
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haha i really had no problems doing the map04 trick, but luring the archvile to a comfortable spot at the end was a bit of a pain because other monsters were attacking it. and then I wanted the cyberdemon to shoot me to the exit so i could die and start frm pistol start on the next map.

Old Post May 12 2012 20:04 #
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odysseyofnoises
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dew said:
there are two bar closing lines, it's a redundancy measure against what you are attempting, hehe. it should still be possible to skip both, but it will take some grinding and rocket boosting.

and what am I supposed to do if I dont have a rocket launcher?

Old Post May 12 2012 20:32 #
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dew
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hmmm... a monster wobble right at the lines to build up extra speed? like grazza did in tv10-037 when he coined the term.

Old Post May 12 2012 20:56 #
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odysseyofnoises
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yeah I tried wobbling... that doesnt seem to work either so maybe this trick might be impossible without a rocket launcher

Old Post May 12 2012 21:00 #
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dew
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linedef skipping is true exploiting of the engine's faults and as such it is highly unreliable. it may take a lot of time to skip two lines at once, but it's definitely doable. i did it unTAS'ed in 1024claustrophobia map26, although the lines were closer to each other.

Old Post May 12 2012 21:20 #
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odysseyofnoises
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okay so im going to try to modify my map05 to get the rocket launcher while still preserving my awesome time of 34 seconds... luckily there is a rocket launcher pretty close by so at worst ill get 35 seconds again. but that would be worth it because i could be saving a mountain of time doing the linedef break on map06

Old Post May 12 2012 21:34 #
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odysseyofnoises
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now with rocket launcher in hand and 94% health + 94% armor I think it should be possible to skip these linedefs

Old Post May 12 2012 23:16 #
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odysseyofnoises
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maybe someone else can do this trick for me? like with XDRE or something.

Attachment: 06prcp.zip
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).

Old Post May 12 2012 23:51 #
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ClumsyDoomer
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odysseyofnoises said:
maybe someone else can do this trick for me? like with XDRE or something.

Are you sure it's possible? I somehow got 34 upt speed, but even it didn't work.
Currently working at map07, trying my newly found trick (let's make sure it's possible). :)

Old Post May 13 2012 08:35 #
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odysseyofnoises
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ClumsyDoomer said:
Are you sure it's possible? I somehow got 34 upt speed, but even it didn't work.
Currently working at map07, trying my newly found trick (let's make sure it's possible). :)

dew said its definitely doable, but i guess its not after all :(

Old Post May 13 2012 08:47 #
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jongo
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Does anyone even know the exact prerequisites for getting a linedef skip? The only heuristic i'm using usualy evolves from "get as much speed as possible, run. If it doesn't work, angle yourself perfectly and hope it works" to "fiddle with tics randomly". I guess linedef must not be crossed in actual tics, but rather between tics, but it's just a wild guess.
Same with keygrabs, and it's even more annoying usually, since lower speeds oftentimes work better and you never know what to expect, it's just blind luck.

Also, loving how the community collaboration works, the initial wips got improved by so much :D

Old Post May 13 2012 09:04 #
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odysseyofnoises
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yes, BOTH lines must be crossed between tics, thats what makes this so hard

Old Post May 13 2012 13:43 #
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xepop
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jongo said:
Does anyone even know the exact prerequisites for getting a linedef skip? The only heuristic i'm using usualy evolves from "get as much speed as possible, run. If it doesn't work, angle yourself perfectly and hope it works" to "fiddle with tics randomly". I guess linedef must not be crossed in actual tics, but rather between tics, but it's just a wild guess.

In my experience, it depends on how far you are from the linedef just after crossing it and which direction you are crossing it. East-west and north-south you need only to be 16 units away. West-east and south-north is considerably higher, 26.923 not being enough. My educated guess is 32. If linedef is not in straight angle it depends on some function of something...

Old Post May 13 2012 14:30 #
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Hock
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For some odd reason the demo desyncs on my computer :\ I've come to the conclusion my computer is just garbage.

EDIT: Nevermind I got it to work now

Old Post May 13 2012 14:53 #
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odysseyofnoises
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what do you guys think: should we just skip this trick because it's unreasonably difficult, and even our best players can't do it? who votes yes

Old Post May 13 2012 15:13 #
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Hock
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odysseyofnoises said:
what do you guys think: should we just skip this trick because it's unreasonably difficult, and even our best players can't do it? who votes yes

I'll give 'er a go once i get there, doubt ill get it but its worth the try!

Old Post May 13 2012 16:24 #
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odysseyofnoises
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I've just tried to do this double linedef skip using -turbo 255 with a rocket boost and it did not work, therefore I officialy declare this trick impossible.

Old Post May 13 2012 17:20 #
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Looper
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Here's two ways to get to the red key. In these demos the red key is picked about the same time, but I would say that the first way is better because you can make it so that the shotgun guy doesn't shoot that many times. I think 1 shot less would do it.

I used turbo @ way2 for the jump because I don't have RL and I was too lazy to calculate the min speed for it.

Attachment: pv06ways.zip
This has been downloaded 40 time(s).

Old Post May 13 2012 19:39 #
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odysseyofnoises
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oh Paska, way 1 is brilliant! I'm using it

Old Post May 13 2012 19:47 #
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Hock
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Paska said:
Here's two ways to get to the red key. In these demos the red key is picked about the same time, but I would say that the first way is better because you can make it so that the shotgun guy doesn't shoot that many times. I think 1 shot less would do it.

I used turbo @ way2 for the jump because I don't have RL and I was too lazy to calculate the min speed for it.


Oh man that is great!

Old Post May 13 2012 20:02 #
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dew
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here's yet another way to reach the key using the RL. :)
not TASed, so you have to redo it using tools.

Attachment: 06prcprl.zip
This has been downloaded 37 time(s).

Old Post May 13 2012 20:49 #
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odysseyofnoises
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I already used Paska's method to do it, it took a bit of fiddling around but finally this is a good way to bypass the red key bars :D

Old Post May 13 2012 22:42 #
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dew
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well, what's the net gain here? looper's method doesn't require the RL, but grabbing it on map05 is just +1s. on the other hand, the chainer seems to get to the bars closer than the sargeant, so i'd say this way will be ultimately faster.

Old Post May 13 2012 23:12 #
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