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odysseyofnoises
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oh come on man I really dont want to have to go all the way back to the beginning. I think it is only a difference of a matter of 1 second or so. cuz using your route I would save the 1 second on this map but wasted it on the previous. using the route I chose, I waste a second here, but I gain one there. so it's fine either way

Old Post 05-13-12 23:41 #
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odysseyofnoises
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I have finished map06 from my demo, it was very difficult because monsters are everywhere and it is hard to dodge them. I didn't know if it is possible to make that jump back so I just didn't do it. if it's possible please let me know. for the time being Im just going to let this map hang in case someone finds out it's possible to do that jump. so speak now or forever hold your peace :P

also I may not be able to post any demos sadly for the next few days due to stupid school. Although I might be able to squeeze in map07 if im lucky. The last few weeks of school are always Hellish, just like sodfinal.

Attachment: 06prcp.zip
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

Last edited by odysseyofnoises on 05-15-12 at 02:39

Old Post 05-14-12 01:27 #
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odysseyofnoises
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hey guys I managed to squeeze map07 in today because my homework went better than expected :) my time on this map is 11 seconds. I hope this is the optimal route (and that the map06 bridge-jump back is impossible :)) the hardest part was probably making that archvile jump from an odd angle without bumping into the side walls.

Attachment: 07prcp.zip
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

Old Post 05-15-12 05:26 #
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Hock
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Here is an interesting little trick i pulled off in map 09 today. I used im too young to die for the armor, so you might need armor from earlier levels to perform this trick in uv. Also -NOMO.

Attachment: pv09trick.zip
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

Old Post 05-15-12 23:23 #
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odysseyofnoises
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Hock, have you conducted the map06 bridge jump experiment yet?

but excellent job on this map09 trick. the thing I worry about is that the map08 route needs a deathslide so you cant carry your armor to map09 :/

Last edited by odysseyofnoises on 05-16-12 at 00:01

Old Post 05-15-12 23:47 #
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Hock
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odysseyofnoises said:


but excellent job on this map09 trick. the thing I worry about is that the map08 route needs a deathslide so you cant carry your armor to map09 :/



yeah thats the part that bothers me :(

Old Post 05-16-12 00:11 #
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odysseyofnoises
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well, here is map08, because I finished my homework within a reasonable time again =) time here is 28 seconds with awesome deathslide at the end. easy map.

Attachment: 08prcp.zip
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

Old Post 05-16-12 05:48 #
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dew
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uhm, before you proceed much further... on map06, you can pick BK without triggering the line that closes the bars of that room. just "grab" it by stopping on the edge of the linedef and run back the way you came in. it might be slightly faster with monsters than opening the front bars... maybe. :)

Old Post 05-16-12 06:20 #
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odysseyofnoises
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dew said:
uhm, before you proceed much further... on map06, you can pick BK without triggering the line that closes the bars of that room. just "grab" it by stopping on the edge of the linedef and run back the way you came in. it might be slightly faster with monsters than opening the front bars... maybe. :)


That doesnt do anything rofl. all it really accomplishes is that the bars dont lower on the yellow door (which serves like no purpose at all since I have no yellow key at that point in the map...)

Old Post 05-16-12 06:33 #
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jongo
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Here's what dew meant i think. This is just a quick demonstration, 0:46-0:47 should be easy to get at least. Also i didn't try to conserve health. By conserving health and adding a rj in one place one more second could be shaved off i think, which would make taking a rocket launcher faster. I don't know the layout of maps though, but i think yet another second can be saved by not picking rl in map07 and shooting the trees earlier.
EDIT: also, while i'm at it, what is the purpose of dying at the end of map04? You could keep bfg and other weapons. And there is plenty of health/armor right on your path in the next map, so with some manipulating of hitscanners it'd be possible to work your way up to 100/100 without wasting time. It would be immensely helpful in map05 and map06 with all beasts blocking narrow paths everywhere. There are some cells in the final room of map04 which you can use, and even more in the first room.

Attachment: 06prcp_fix.zip
This has been downloaded 21 time(s).

Last edited by jongo on 05-16-12 at 09:47

Old Post 05-16-12 09:31 #
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j4rio
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Also first two maps have been done both a bit faster, so you should redo it whole. :D Unless you don't mind people with more TAZ skillz would trounce your demo, that is. There is also soulsphere secret in map 3 right on the way which would not even waste any second were you to take it.

Old Post 05-16-12 10:02 #
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Cacatou
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In Map 09, the same trick could be done using an Arch-Vile jump and there are two arch-viles in the map nearby. It would also take less health.

Old Post 05-16-12 13:02 #
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odysseyofnoises
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j4rio said:
Also first two maps have been done both a bit faster, so you should redo it whole. :D Unless you don't mind people with more TAZ skillz would trounce your demo, that is. There is also soulsphere secret in map 3 right on the way which would not even waste any second were you to take it.


excuse me? Id love to see how far you could get your times down without xdre...

Old Post 05-16-12 13:25 #
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jongo
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Found time to do more quick tests to outline the routes, so had to redo map03 with soulsphere (it takes about half a sec to take it), also showing how all hitscanners are harmless with some manipulation. This allows to survive all av-jumps in map04 and end up with tons of cells and all weapons. I think Hock could modify his built demo to have max health by the end of the map, but still exit at 0:33.
Also i personally don't care about -complevel2, especially if he just adds a footer in the end. You guys make it sound like it's a crime to use doom2 compatibility in a final doom wad :)

Also included is a new trick for map04, - with rocketjump it's possible to get to the chainers 2secs earlier. I also should've shot plasma there while making a detour for the blue armor instead of SSGing the caco. That way there would be no time loss at the key. But let's leave that for runners :p

Attachment: 0304prcp_fix.zip
This has been downloaded 14 time(s).

Old Post 05-16-12 13:37 #
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odysseyofnoises
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jongo said:
Here's what dew meant i think. This is just a quick demonstration, 0:46-0:47 should be easy to get at least. Also i didn't try to conserve health. By conserving health and adding a rj in one place one more second could be shaved off i think, which would make taking a rocket launcher faster. I don't know the layout of maps though, but i think yet another second can be saved by not picking rl in map07 and shooting the trees earlier.
EDIT: also, while i'm at it, what is the purpose of dying at the end of map04? You could keep bfg and other weapons. And there is plenty of health/armor right on your path in the next map, so with some manipulating of hitscanners it'd be possible to work your way up to 100/100 without wasting time. It would be immensely helpful in map05 and map06 with all beasts blocking narrow paths everywhere. There are some cells in the final room of map04 which you can use, and even more in the first room.



wow! nice job Jongo. tonight I will try to get my time down to 0:47 if I can and redo my map07 and 08...

Old Post 05-16-12 13:37 #
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jongo
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odysseyofnoises said:
without xdre...

Btw, i used prboom only in my latest test-demo, but it's always a good practice to use dre/hex-editor in non-built demos too for a couple of things. I forgot to mention earlier that when you use prboom, first few tics in each map are spent doing nothing. So in most TAS demos (my old movies / any Akse's for example) dre is used at the beginning of each map to line oneself perfectly and start moving at the very first tic. This is a very easy and useful way to cut some time and it takes about 1min to do it. I noticed that you don't use this technique and in map03 you start moving at about ~0.26sec. Same with map04. This is a very easy and cheap way to cut some time with no effort.

Old Post 05-16-12 13:48 #
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odysseyofnoises
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okay what commands do i use in XDRE to move forward at the start

Old Post 05-16-12 13:52 #
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jongo
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Put plutonia.wad and prcp.wad in one folder with xdre, execute this command line: "xdre.exe -iwad plutonia -file prcp". Write "load" in Input textbox and choose your demo. Let's say 08prcp.lmp. Now you need to find the first tic in the map you're interested in. Suppose we want map02. You can use mouse to click on tics, and xdre will show what's happening in that particular tic in its window. Alternatively, you can scroll by typing "i" in the Input textbox and it'll move to the next tic. Another way is to jump by typing "f100", then pressing spacebar. This will forward by 100 tics, and you can write any other number you want. To return back, type "bX" (where X is the number of tics you want to go back) and press Space. There is a full list of commands in readme.txt.
It's not difficult to find that the first tic in map02 is 408th. It's a WT tick in your demo, which stands for "wait", i.e. the player doesn't do anything. The moving starts only at tic 416, so you're doing nothing for 8 tics. 416th tic is GF50 (means you're moving forward at max speed) SR50 (means you're strafing right at max speed) TL29 (means you're turning left by 29 units in this tic). After that you're running in straight line, so i guess you're satisfied with your angle. So we just need to put GF50 SR50 TL29 tic earlier, at tic 408. And then add some GF50 SR50 tics later so that it runs at max speed by itself for a couple of tics. Then you can play around with different TL-values to see which one fits best.
TL32 equals 90, TL64 equals 180, TL128 equals a full circle. Hope it helps :)

Old Post 05-16-12 14:08 #
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odysseyofnoises
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so these will be my goals for the time being:

1 - improve map06 to 47
2 - fix the first 8 tics of all the maps
3 - redo maps 07 and 8

the only thing thats going to be a major pain in the ass will be on map07 to get the archvile to operate

Last edited by odysseyofnoises on 05-16-12 at 16:32

Old Post 05-16-12 14:49 #
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jongo
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2 - fix the first 8 tics of all the maps

fixing the tics will work only in maps you're redoing completely, or everything desyncs. I'm sure you know that, but pointing out just in case :)

One more test-demo from me. I continued my map03-04 demo to try bfg out in map06. So there is no need in downloading that demo, you can dl this one instead. Also, ignore map05, it's just a filler.
It appears that losing bfg in map04 was a bad idea, as expected. I managed to cut the time down to 0:41 in half of an hour by using bfg and adding Paska's rocketjump. Another benefit is that map07 is easily doable in 10seconds since there is no need to spend a second to pick up the rocket launcher. Although, getting archies to cooperate is always annoying of course, but what can you do:)

Any other route improvements up to map07 anyone? I would really suggest redoing everything from map03, taking the soulsphere and using rj+av in map04. This potentially saves at least 2 secs in map04, X secs in map05 (have to test more thoroughly, at least 1. Maybe rl can be useful), 6 secs in map06 (comparing to dew's route), 1sec in map07. Don't think it'll save anything in map08, your (odysseyofnoises) run there is very nice already. Still, we get a huge 10sec improvement with the cost of maximum 1sec for taking a soulsphere and staying alive in map04.

Attachment: 03-06prcp_fix2.zip
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).

Old Post 05-16-12 17:29 #
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odysseyofnoises
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wow youve basically redone the whole demo for me :o the only thing I didnt like was that the intermission screens were crazy short, I dont like that since mine are longer and yours a lre shorter its not balanced :( but thats mostly just nitpicking

Old Post 05-16-12 18:13 #
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ClumsyDoomer
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jongo said:
[B]
map07

I have a crazy idea, still trying to get it but that trick is behind my skills. Maybe xepop, Looper or jongo can do it? :/
In the beginning, call cybers until they will shoot. Run to the megasphere and wait for new cyber rocket. When rocket is close, run to it and let it hit you. You get a very large speed boost, so I think it's possible to fly over the platform... I'm,working at this demo for 2 weeks, and I'm very close to it.
I'm bad in English and can't describe it better :(

Old Post 05-16-12 18:15 #
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odysseyofnoises
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I have reached the decision to set myself all the way back to map03 at the soulsphere area and grab that and do the once again updated map04 route, map05, use dews method for the red key and use bfg and use paskas rj, and then map07 will come easily in 10s, and map08. those are all my goals and Im going to try to get as far as I can with this today because I shouldnt have too much homework...

Old Post 05-16-12 18:21 #
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Looper
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How about this (in map07):
Get rocket launcher & mega sphere. Rocket jump on the rocket launcher platform and cyber demon shoots rocket to you so you fly over the fence without arch-vile jump.

Old Post 05-16-12 18:32 #
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odysseyofnoises
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Paska said:
How about this (in map07):
Get rocket launcher & mega sphere. Rocket jump on the rocket launcher platform and cyber demon shoots rocket to you so you fly over the fence without arch-vile jump.



yes this is what I was thinking of but I didnt know how to get on the rocket platform. but yeah im centuries away from map07 so Ill test it when I get there lolz

Old Post 05-16-12 18:47 #
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Hock
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jongo said:

Also i personally don't care about -complevel2, especially if he just adds a footer in the end. You guys make it sound like it's a crime to use doom2 compatibility in a final doom wad :)

for runners :p



Heh my thoughts exactly, and if you don't mind, do you think we could talk about this run sometime? I'm thinking about restarting it, to make it slightly better.

Last edited by Hock on 05-16-12 at 23:34

Old Post 05-16-12 19:44 #
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Hock
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Looks like i got a lot of re-doing to do ...

Old Post 05-16-12 19:51 #
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odysseyofnoises
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Hock said:
Looks like i got a lot of re-doing to do ...


i know that feel bro... Im gonna redo maps 3-6 today

Old Post 05-16-12 23:29 #
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odysseyofnoises
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Im not going to be able to do the map04 rocket and archvile jump becasue i just dont have enough health and theres a cacodemon in the way...

I am like "this" close to quitting this run...

Last edited by odysseyofnoises on 05-17-12 at 07:57

Old Post 05-17-12 07:50 #
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odysseyofnoises
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what i had of the demo so far

Attachment: prcp04.zip
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Old Post 05-17-12 08:01 #
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