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Dacote
Newbie


Posts: 8
Registered: 11-07


Blasting through maps in your own solitude is not nearly as fun as doing it for a fun, competitive purpose with others. From what I gather from this forum, it's nothing more than solo offline play, or spectator mode.

Can we not create something that encourages speedrunning? Here are two example formats that I'd love to be part of:

- A new map every week, with a top 10 list of submitted times.
- A forum where every thread is a user-created map, and players try to compete with each other in the posts.

Anyone in favor? I love speedrunning, but it's not nearly as fun if you don't have anyone to compare with.

Old Post 07-16-12 22:55 #
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AnAussieGamer
Warming Up


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This is exactly what i was looking for. But when you have the good speedrunners in the competition it takes us average players out. What if we break it up into different comp levels. The pro's that everyone knows, should be in a different league from the average players. Even if we could get a team of map builders to build one level at a time with the base of the levels just for speedrunning. Then at the end of the comp we should merge them all in to one giant speedrun.wad or something. Well, this is just my opinion anyway.

Old Post 07-17-12 06:39 #
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Dacote
Newbie


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Well, I can't think of a way to divide the player groups that would be considered fair and advantageous. I must say though, when I started out with Quake III speedrunning (I'm a top player now), I was satisfied with a rank 30/100 when I usually got around 50/100, and it was an everlasting cycle of encouragement when I could get into the top 10, top 5 etc. I can imagine something similar here, even if I happen to be mediocre compared to others.

I like your speedrun.wad idea.

Old Post 07-17-12 10:30 #
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Memfis
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Posts: 4785
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I was planning to organise some speed demo events where I would present a new map and the players would compete in max/pacifist/nm-speed categories for a few days. But I'm not confident in my mapping skills and I'm afraid that people will not find my maps interesting enough to spend a lot of time on.

Old Post 07-17-12 10:47 #
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myk
volveré y seré millones


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Yeah, I would imagine periodic or occasional events similar to FDAs or the Czech contests should work, especially if posted as Doomworld news.

Something broader would probably clash with the more spontaneous practice of simply recording runs on any WADs out there, which comes naturally from the level-making richness of the game and integrates the activities (of level design and speed running) freely instead of making one necessarily serve the other.

Old Post 07-17-12 11:41 #
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TimeOfDeath
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An easy way to create competition is to be really arrogant about your skills & demos, say they're amazing and other people's demos suck, and be really obnoxious about it. Almost immediately there will be people recording against you, really hoping to prove you wrong.

I don't recommend that, though. :)

Old Post 07-17-12 16:01 #
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blob1024
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Posts: 671
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TimeOfDeath said:
An easy way to create competition is to be really arrogant about your skills & demos, say they're amazing and other people's demos suck, and be really obnoxious about it. Almost immediately there will be people recording against you, really hoping to prove you wrong.

I don't recommend that, though. :)


ahah sounds like a masterplan to get more people involved :P

Old Post 07-17-12 17:20 #
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Squonk
Junior Member


Posts: 109
Registered: 03-07



Memfis said:
I was planning to organise some speed demo events where I would present a new map and the players would compete in max/pacifist/nm-speed categories for a few days. But I'm not confident in my mapping skills and I'm afraid that people will not find my maps interesting enough to spend a lot of time on.


I don't think it works that way. If you set up an event, people will play your map as long as it's not desperatly shitty. Recently I've been enjoying recording for pc_cp demopack; although the maps are definitely not top-quality (in terms of fun), the fact that "many" people are gathered around this makes up for it.

Overall, I think all you need for such events is a good and motivated leader.

Old Post 07-17-12 18:14 #
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Memfis
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Squonk said:
I don't think it works that way. If you set up an event, people will play your map as long as it's not desperatly shitty.

Well, maybe, but I still would feel bad for setting up an event on a map that I don't think is good enough. Maybe it's feeling of responsibility or just pride, I don't know.

Old Post 07-17-12 18:46 #
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blob1024
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sadly i never learned building maps back then.. and I grew lazy about it. Otherwise id help as well
how long it takes to get in decent mapping anyway? and with decent i mean bug-free ones, with doors, activated by walking lines/secrets and teleported items/enemies and similar

Old Post 07-17-12 19:35 #
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j4rio
Forum Staple


Posts: 2398
Registered: 07-10


Learning stuff in DB takes just a while, watch tutorials and stare at popular maps in DB. You need to possess a mindset for mapmaking though, I've been gifted with anti-talent for example. There's no way I'd ever make a serious map.

Old Post 07-17-12 20:00 #
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cannonball
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Posts: 2100
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Same thoughts as Memfis, my mapping is very hit and miss.........
Though the idea itself is pretty solid and I would like it to happen. It would certainly stimulate some of us as many here including myself are prone to periods of inn inactivity.
@J4rio and Blob1024 you should give mapping a shot, I learnt from scratch though I had to do the things said here, but it doesn't take too long. Though I do a lot of trial and error.

Old Post 07-17-12 20:09 #
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Dacote
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I very much want to provide maps if this becomes reality.

Old Post 07-17-12 22:32 #
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Zahid
Junior Member


Posts: 113
Registered: 05-12


I got a suggestion....
What if Select a whole wad instead of single map....
Like I saw tnt wad kind of redone like project beating old records.....
in this way new times and strategies can be seen in that wad.....
speedrunners would be choose Their Favourite kind of map to play and compete,as I think every person hold grip of certain kind of combat environment some like slaughter while some strategical and tactful...
in this way many infamous but good wads got their due in the form of players attention...2 wads of normal size in month or 1 big wad(big arena n combat wise) a month....

Old Post 07-19-12 16:08 #
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Looper
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Posts: 474
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Zahid said:
in this way many infamous but good wads got their due in the form of players attention...2 wads of normal size in month or 1 big wad(big arena n combat wise) a month....

Sure, if there was enough players. I don't see any competition if people fight just one month on one 32 level wad.

If you want competition, you have to concentrate only on few maps or there won't be any. Probably TNT and plutonia are the best wads at the moment, since some of the records aren't that optimized, but nobody wants to play just TNT/plutonia and doom/2. So, IMO the problem is not enough players and too many maps. FDA contests seem to work fine with less players, while the traditional competition does not.

Old Post 07-19-12 16:28 #
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purist
Senior Member


Posts: 1855
Registered: 04-04



Looper said:

Sure, if there was enough players. I don't see any competition if people fight just one month on one 32 level wad.



Not that I'm good enough to compete but how about this for a solution:

1. Pick a megawad - something decent but not already demo'd to death.
2. Pick a month - e.g August
3. On 1st of August all speedrunners compete on MAP01 only.
4. At the end of the day the winner(s) are decided
5. On 2nd of August you repeat for MAP02 of the same WAD
6. Etc

Old Post 07-19-12 18:20 #
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jongo
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Posts: 305
Registered: 07-07


most people can't record every day, most won't play maps they don't like, or maps that don't fit their playing style (i.e. i can't come up with good routes for uv-max demos in non-linear maps, so i won't even bother, especially when the deadline is so short and set in stone).
In the end you'll get something like 10 maps with 1 demo, 5 with 2, 3 with 3+, rest with no demos at best.

Old Post 07-19-12 19:25 #
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AnAussieGamer
Warming Up


Posts: 18
Registered: 07-12


I figured a way to make the contest more balanced. Have runs of every difficulty level, but you can only post a run in ONE difficulty. So if you do UV-MAX you cant do a run on the easiest difficulty until that competition is over and if no one has done a run on the map. But what would make people not do the easier difficulty? Better prizes for the higher difficulty's (if we have prizes) Maybe we can think of a competition name and i will be glad to design shirts to give out if people submit some money for me to design them, don't have to, but just a suggestion. I will be building maps based just on speed running. They will be long 4 - 5 minute maps, very hard, lots of puzzles. If anyone wants to team up with me i would appreciate it as my mapping skills aren't the best, but i did make a wad just never released it.

My email is aaronwheeler_09@hotmai.com email me with your doomworld username and another way to contact you (email etc) Then we will talk about building maps together.

Last edited by AnAussieGamer on 07-20-12 at 01:23

Old Post 07-20-12 00:06 #
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Dacote
Newbie


Posts: 8
Registered: 11-07


It doesn't have to be an overblown competition, and I doubt prizes and such would work that well in this community.

Some considerations:

- There should be a few fixed modes: UV Speed, UV Max, UV Pacifist(?), and NM Speed. If there were other difficulties, the times would be spread out over 19 leaderboards instead of 4, and we don't want that.

- There should be room for a leaderboard of at least 10 times. If it were only 1 or 3 spots, it would only be a competition between the absolute best players.

- The number of maps, the competition size and the time limit should all fit each other. If the time limit is a week, maybe it would be best if there were three maps to choose from.

I still like the idea of making threads for one's own maps, or perhaps requesting "what time can you get on 10 Sectors MAP20?", and letting people submit demos in the posts. It's simple, and encourages both speedrunning and mapping/map exploration. I wouldn't want to clutter the "Doom Speed Demos" forum with such threads though.

Old Post 07-20-12 11:51 #
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AnAussieGamer
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Maybe if we build a speedrun.wad the prize can be that we mention the winners name in the credits as the best player for the wad.

Old Post 07-20-12 12:38 #
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AnAussieGamer
Warming Up


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So, does anyone want to help me with mapping? I know how to do everything EXCEPT make stairs lower instead of raise. I am doing a level for the wad i'm creating, but i am going to upload it for this speedrun competition as the first wad if no one else submits one. I HOPE to be finished by late tomorrow afternoon or the day after. It's hell based. If anyone wants to help i would be gladly appreciated.

Old Post 07-23-12 06:53 #
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Vorpal
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On a STG (Shooting Game, like Gradius) forum I used to frequent, after the big ~15 or so games had world records that nobody could touch, they started making up weekly/monthly competitions.

Forum mods weren't involved, it was just users passing the torch around (there was apparently a sort of understanding that there shouldn't be 2 competitions going at once), and someone would also maintain a data table showing statistics across all competitions. Mostly lesser-known titles were chosen to compete on, and demos/recordings were only required for the top 3 or so (of course anyone was welcome to contribute their demos/recordings though). Once in a while someone would hold a competition on a big popular title, which lets the hardcore guys strut their stuff and keeps things fun.

Some of the more complicated competitions involved people joining teams, usually "led" by one or two of the more hardcore guys. It served a sort of social function, with people sharing tactics, techniques etc. in order to crush the other team. It would also get competitive enough for there to be a sort of metagame, where people would withhold stellar demos until the last day of submissions ;-P

But yeah, a few dedicated people maintaining a public scoreboard with links to winning demos, pruned from the individually run week by week/month by month threads. Only one game setting was allowed, so as to keep everyone competing against eachother (that is to say, having a competition that accepted UV, Nightmare, -fast, Tyson, etc. would have too much fragmentation of which category people would participate in). The person running the competition picks the settings, usually default settings to keep participation high.

Too many rules will kill it. Simplicity and freedom encourage participation, e.g. there was one competition where you had to "sign up" by emailing some guy, and that was enough to make me not bother participating. I think it'd also be important NOT to set an engine restriction, just a skill setting restriction IMO.

Old Post 07-23-12 16:59 #
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dew
experts


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there's this going on right now at zdaemon: http://doom.machata24.cz/tsl/

it's 2-man survival coop on mostly very easy maps... that get pretty damn hard when you race the clock, heh. it's the first season and sort of a trial run, because the current 1.09 beta of zdaemon doesn't let people record demos. season 2 should be much more polished and i'll let you know when it's happening. :)

Old Post 07-23-12 18:28 #
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AnAussieGamer
Warming Up


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Incase you didn't notice, no one else can enter the zdaemon competition. Anyway, my map goes live tomorrow night (gmt+10) If you want to do UV max or UV speed do a demo of it and show me, it is my first map so be kind. But i'm liking it at the moment. It's pretty short, but it's just a test map. The new maps will be longer. I'm not sure what complevel everyone should use. Perhaps -complevel 4, What do you think is best?

Old Post 07-24-12 05:58 #
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