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Memfis
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Cacatou said:
Actually Springy, accidental telefrags are allowed in Pacifist runs.

Well, not everyone agrees. And "accidental" is a fuzzy term in this case anyway. A telefrag might look like it was not planned but maybe the speedrunner actually made 100 attempts just waiting for it to happen. I don't think there was ever a consensus on this.

Old Post Jun 26 2013 11:24 #
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dew
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as far as i know accidental avoidable telefrags are not allowed. if you can make the run without the telefrag, then how do you justify keeping it in? it's a direct kill by the player, unlike all the "hypocritical" ways to indirecly kill monsters that draw debate. only completely unavoidable telefrags are allowed, iirc, like monsters idling on teleport destinations, because the mapper plans on having them telefragged and pacifist would be impossible otherwise.

Old Post Jun 26 2013 17:32 #
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j4rio
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To me the exact opposite of what dew said makes more sense. If you're 5 minutes into a nervewrecking demo, and just have to enter a teleporter that gets you to section with wandering monsters, it would be complete bullshit to disqualify it and retry until RNG works. On the other hand, if telefrag is given, then it's no pacifist, just some quasi-pacifist of sorts. So there.

Old Post Jun 26 2013 17:37 #
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dew
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it's not enough that you didn't mean it. by the same logic you could be forgiven for hitting a monster when it stumbled into your wakeup shot. demos have been disqualified for "pettier" reasons anyways.

i'm aware of the questionability of obligatory telefrags, but that's an exception to make the map "work" at all. we allow maxes even when monsters or secrets are unreachable, remember? on the other hand we don't forgive a revived survivor that just happened to wander away. call it hypocritical pacifist if you wish, i think it's more in line with the technical description than your "feely" excuse for an accidental kill. :)

Old Post Jun 26 2013 18:08 #
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Ryback
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Personally I think runs with deliberate but unavoidable telefrags are less in the pacifist spirit than runs with avoidable but completely accidental telefrags. For maps in the former category it'd be best to declare them uncompletable pacifist style, like we do with map30.

The grey area is what constitutes "accidental"...

Old Post Jun 28 2013 13:58 #
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kunkun
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Ryback said:
Personally I think runs with deliberate but unavoidable telefrags are less in the pacifist spirit than runs with avoidable but completely accidental telefrags. For maps in the former category it'd be best to declare them uncompletable pacifist style, like we do with map30.

The grey area is what constitutes "accidental"...

Wouldn't deliberately causing infighting be against "pacifist spirit" as well though? Say in levels like E3M8 which you can't even finish without killing the spider, or doom2 map17 where lots of time is spent getting the monsters to fight instead of running past them while telling them about our lord and saviour Jesus Christ or something. I think the only way to be really sure something is pacifist in spirit would be having 0% kills as accidental telefrags or infighting or anything is pretty hard to quantify. Even a truly accidental telefrag might have been the key to actually finishing the run. I'd say just call it doesn't harm monsters with weapons category.

Old Post Jun 28 2013 15:17 #
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j4rio
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kunkun said:
I'd say just call it doesn't harm monsters with weapons category.

That's actually kinda agreeable way to put it. Allowing telefrags would have made the category more interesting and less bullshit. It wouldn't have changed all that much anyways.

Old Post Jun 28 2013 20:16 #
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blob1024
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dannebubinga said:
Map 34 uv-max 18:14

warum it desyncs? zZz

edit: oh my bad. btw luls @ the map

Old Post Jun 28 2013 21:06 #
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j4rio
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Listen up, dawgettes.

Final version is up so some cleansing would have been in order. Unfortunately few demos desync, current demos on maps 1, 5 and 21 will not play back on final version. Please update first post with this:

_________________________________



Post Slaughterfest 2012 demos here.

Some demos that do not play back with final version will require previous versions of wad to work. Which version to pick for playback of demos not working with final version is noted with corresponding post to which demo is attached.

version D
version C
version B

As for demo naming, just use 'sf'.

_________________________________

Old Post Aug 2 2013 12:06 #
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dew
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dawn, broski.

Old Post Aug 2 2013 17:44 #
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j4rio
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And here comes the plot twist, map 30 is without reject table so it'd be probably better not recording it for the next few days. Geez, this is ridiculous.

Old Post Aug 2 2013 19:02 #
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j4rio
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Allright it's up so redownload idgames link and rest assured there won't be anymore bugfixing.

Also pls tag every post containing runs of 5 and 21 that they need D for playback, same for 1 but I'm not sure if all will work on D, some may need previous versions - I haven't checked.

Last edited by j4rio on Aug 7 2013 at 18:29

Old Post Aug 7 2013 13:52 #
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gggmork
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good enough for map 30 (3 keys, lame death in yellow because butterdemons didn't infight much and a flood of assviles came through and the heaps of route memorization didn't plan for that particular scenario plus they all just increased their attack power like 3 times higher than normal when they hit me, sure why not, the computer is allowed to cheat. At least it wasn't an I_SignalHandler: Exiting on signal: signal 11 error or missing colum jumps into the lava with only 50 life, forcing yet another hour+ replay, this time. But I hope I vow to never play long hard maps anymore as therapy to reduce my tourrettes (GOD DAM IT how do you spell that FUCKING SHIT touretts):
http://filesmelt.com/dl/sf2012-30-goodEnough-Fail.lmp

Old Post Aug 17 2013 16:02 #
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Ribbiks
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hah, good enough for me too. I swear ggg you're like a computer that comes up with the statistically safest way to handle any given doom situation. Some of your strats were things I never even considered during my bajillion hours of playtesting: using ledge in first room, waking up rev swarm early in the 3keys room, exploiting quick exits in initial RK/BK areas. Rushing past the initial mobs in the final RK/YK areas definitely felt risky though, made for an entertaining watch.

Old Post Aug 17 2013 17:15 #
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gggmork
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Hardest part was above the lift near triple key switches, where viles and revs are in columns, died lots there and took awhile to get any strategy, and still die like 40% (almost did that time) of the time. Finding all the safest ways was due to a pre-saves run (after a couple iddqd runs, and finding secrets with iddt/doombuilder). Probably saves time running out of blue area, then out of red area and back to blue to get both infighting. Not sure if better to kill all first in yellow area before running to chaingunners.

This was my route for the last main area, if useful to someone:
Go to left side where demons/cybers pop up (because there's no ledge monsters) and kill all ground enemies, then kill all ledge enemies and those column viles.
Do all that tower stuff until you get to the switch that opens tons of zombiemen/viles. Have enough cells/rockets then as soon as you do that switch, hide toward the right of their opening, and pop out and bfg viles then finish off with rockets.
Do rest of tower, then at top switch (remember megasphere secret though) hide so cacos can't see you while ledge lowers, immediately get invuln and run forward and right a bit to go up those stairs, slight gamble whether viles will blast you off, but your goal is to run all the way across to that little circular stair area. From there you're quite safe and can bfg cacos while cybers infight. Then stay up there and bfg remaining cybers.

Old Post Aug 17 2013 19:14 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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I'm sure Okuplok will have a demo in less then a week just like Sunder MAP11 lul.

Old Post Aug 17 2013 20:53 #
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Ribbiks
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gggmork said:
your goal is to run all the way across to that little circular stair area. From there you're quite safe and can bfg cacos while cybers infight. Then stay up there and bfg remaining cybers.

Indeed! I saw that strat by some guy on youtube who recorded a playthrough. it's almost a shame the final fight can be cheesed like that, but I guess that can be a reward for being creative and making it that far in the first place

Bloodite Krypto said:
I'm sure Okuplok will have a demo in less then a week just like Sunder MAP11 lul.

it would certainly be interesting to see if he ever decides to play doom again :)

Old Post Aug 17 2013 21:05 #
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Nevan
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Fail max run of 18 because somehow missed a monster but I was probably blind, but I'll leave this here till I try again - done in an hour.

Attachment: sf18fail.zip
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).

Old Post Aug 27 2013 15:54 #
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cannonball
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Ribbiks said:
it would certainly be interesting to see if he ever decides to play doom again :)

If he beats maps 25 and 30 I would personally head back to Southampton and buy him a pint ;)

Old Post Aug 27 2013 16:18 #
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j4rio
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Speaking of 25, max in 39:30

but I was probably blind
Nope, once in a light year one of first two mancs fails to teleport in, which was known thingie but author didn't do a tint about it anyway.

Attachment: sf25-3930.zip
This has been downloaded 70 time(s).

Last edited by j4rio on Aug 27 2013 at 18:56

Old Post Aug 27 2013 18:06 #
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j4rio
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map 1 max 4:58

Attachment: sf01-458.zip
This has been downloaded 48 time(s).

Old Post Aug 30 2013 09:56 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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j4rio said:
Nope, once in a light year one of first two mancs fails to teleport in, which was known thingie but author didn't do a tint about it anyway.

That's actually never happened in the numerous times I play tested it and even so, I wouldn't know how to mend it being literally new to mapping.

Good show nonetheless! Numerous close encounters haha.

Old Post Sep 1 2013 11:28 #
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j4rio
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You used W1 action for teleporting from dummy rooms, which is almost always a bad thing. If something stands on teleporting position, it will be impossible for content of dummy rooms to come out because the teleporting action will be exhausted after a single failed attempt to activate it. However in this particular case even changing them to WR wouldn't be enough because you used scrolling floor to teleport deaf monsters, and deaf monsters alone cannot activate anything. Such closets use for example boom action 244 set to two linedefs that keep deaf monsters in a teleporting loop within dummy room until they can be teleported onto their desired position. I used a few of such dummy rooms in map 24 if you're interested. Well, another reason for an update. ;p

Old Post Sep 1 2013 15:14 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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j4rio said:
Such closets use for example boom action 244 set to two linedefs that keep deaf monsters in a teleporting loop within dummy room until they can be teleported onto their desired position.

No idea what this means being sleep deprived at the moment, maybe if their was a guide making distinctions between what you can craft in Vanilla and Boom it'd help. You know theirs a huge assortment of Linedef Actions and not any understanding on the exact effects of all of them without random experimentation and just generally spending far too much time in the editor dicking around.

Old Post Sep 2 2013 11:43 #
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Phml
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There's the Boom documentation, if you're feeling brave. A programmer's idea of layman's terms...

Without knowing the specifics of the map and all, I think what j4rio is saying is:
- it's good practice to never use W1 triggers for teleport closets.
- if you're making a scrolling floor teleport closet, make sure there's a failsafe in case the destination is obstructed at the critical moment. This could be a second teleport line behind the first teleport line, this second line warping the monster back to the very beginning of the scrolling floor.

Basically, make everything a loop so it can't break by design.

Old Post Sep 2 2013 19:08 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Can someone re-post gggmork's 30 demo? Filesmelt doesn't seem to be working over the past 2 days.

Old Post Sep 4 2013 14:12 #
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kunkun
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Here you go. Seems to play back on sf2012.wad instead of sf2012d+.wad, whatever the difference is.

Attachment: sf2012-30-goodenough-fail.zip
This has been downloaded 44 time(s).

Old Post Sep 4 2013 17:29 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Cheers, but I think D+ hasn't been unleashed on the archives and is thus unofficial.

Old Post Sep 4 2013 17:57 #
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j4rio
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B C and D are just pre-idgames versions that were (unfortunately) recorded on before final version was up.

Old Post Sep 4 2013 20:28 #
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j4rio
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26 max 37:44

Attachment: sf26-3744.zip
This has been downloaded 54 time(s).

Old Post Sep 5 2013 01:05 #
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